See Terry, it’s better than you thought. I wish you had a judging center near you!
Cattleya trianae Cashen’s’ FCC/AOS
- Thread starter southernbelle
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Both extremely gorgeous belles, Belle! 
I think Leslie had a weak moment. There is too big of a gap at the top of the petals and I think there is a bit too much space between the lip and the lateral sepals. I am glad there isn’t an easy judging center. I stopped wanting competition in my life years ago. You have what it takes to get out and do it.
Both points ARE true. BUT only if you aim for FCC.
This flower will not score that but it can possibly score around a high HCC to low AM on the right team with 3 well arranged flat flowers.
Interesting. I thought once an award like an FCC is given to a cultivar like ‘Cashen’s’ that the FCC could only be upgraded by more points. I never thought about a selfing becoming a different cultivar. But I guess it makes sense since the cross would be registered and Terry’s plant (for instance) would get a new name. Is that the logic?
Yes, only divisions or mericlones of the original 'Cashen's' would carry the name. A selfing is not an exact clone of the parent, even though it contains only genes from the parent those genes are shuffled and recombined when reproductive cells undergo meiosis to form pollen and ovules. When the plant is self pollinated the genomes of the resulting embryos will each differ from the parent's genome and display differing phenotypes as a result.
And, even a mericlone can end up with a different cultivar name IF it is enough different from the parent. Mericlones can have some genetic differences, like identical human twins are usually not exact copies. For example Cattleya percivaliana ‘Mendenhall-Summit’ came from a batch of mericlones made from ‘Summit’ but was enough different to get a new cultivar name AND a new award for itself.
You make a good point. We have identical twin daughters confirmed genetically who have some genetic differences. One carries Von Willebrand’s factor in blood clotting and the other has a rudimentary 3rd kidney, among other things like different variants carried. Yet they are identical, and when one of the genetic testing sites reported on their children, they reported the children of each to be the children of both. So instead of each having two children it showed each having four! Somewhat bizarre, but it says to me that just as no two snowflakes are exactly alike, no two humans are either.
The FCC only stays with the original plant (same DNA) or it mericlones.*
A selfing is different DNA as seen by the different flower form/markings. Each of those seedlings are unique and each can be given a cultivar name.
* If the mericloning process produces a difference in genes and DNA (as seen in Mendenhall-Summit from Summit), it can be renamed a new cultivar name. This is rare. The whole point of mericloning is to produce the same plant with consistent flower as the original plant.
Thank you! This brings to mind a question: I thought both Summit and Mendenhall-Summit were 4N but recently heard that only Mendenhall-Summit is 4N. Is that correct?
Yes that seems to be the reason that MS had steroid flowers lol.
I think ’Summit’ is usually called 4N, yet many plants that have been called 4N or tetraploid, etc don’t have public, written validation of this. Just because leaves are different or flowers are different doesn’t equal being tetraploid. There could just be specific gene mutations causing changes. I know Jerry Fischer told me once that his plant “X” had received chromosome counting in the lab at the University of “y” and was showed to be tetraploid. I don’t think stomatal size is enough to verify. This information needs to be written publicly. It shouldn’t be private information shared just within the inner circle. Unfortunately, there isn’t enough money within any portion of the orchid world to fund doing chromosome counting, let alone whole genome analysis. There also isn’t much of an economic incentive for a breeder or commercial grower to get the proof.
I’ve been thinking about this and why I love to exhibit when I can, even though I don’t have a competitive bone in my body. I enjoy doing it for the flowers! They are too gorgeous not to have people see them and many cannot (or don’t know they can) own historic or very special plants. I sort of feel as though these plants have passed the test of time and deserve the recognition of being seen by more than my husband and sometimes a few friends. Even when it’s just the show table at a meeting, if the plants and their history are well described and why they win the ribbon (or don’t), I think it’s very educational and deepens the general appreciation of orchids and encourages others that they can grow them well, too!
Each is a great reason for participating! I have to think about this.
Plus, I really enjoy orchid people!!!
And, examples of historic plants was at our VOS meeting yesterday. Patrick CarmellaCarey brought an original div. of C. Nancy Off ‘Linwood’. I’d never seen one in the flesh, that flower is huge and the photos don’t do it justice! Easy to see why it’s a Waldor namesake and was such an incredible cut flower!! We will trade divisions for that sometime in the future!! So, one will eventually come to you if you want it (I remember you were interested in it on eBay.)
He also brought an original div. of C. percivaliana 'Longwood'. He explained that the plant (which no one there realized) was jungle collected for the Duponts (before Longwood Gardens existed!) so has quite a history!! It’s in Chadwick’s book! I really appreciate when someone knowledgeable talks about the plants on the show table and their history and said a wow for that one!!
You have a great community. Don't lose it.
And I’m doubly fortunate because I’m midway between Virginia Orchid Society in Richmond and Nat. Capitol Orchid Soc. In D.C. I benefit tremendously from both and have met so many truly special and kind orchid people in both groups. Nothing short of blessed.
But I suspect you could have similar experiences if you were to connect with your local society. You have so much to share both in knowledge and wonderful plants that would be an inspiration to many and you have some incredible growers/hybridizers in that area who are probably connected locally as well.
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Carmella.carey
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Well Terry,
It gets it's splashes from C.trianaei 'Mary Fennell' HCC/AOS, a parent of 'Cashen's'. by the way 'Cashen's' is ('B' x 'Mary Fennell' HCC/AOS).
C.trianaei 'Mary fennell' is a jungle plant collected by the american plant hunter Lee Arthur Fenell, of the Fenell Orchid Jungle, Homestead, FL.
It was brought from Colombia to the US in the early 20th century and was considered the very best dark variety. despite it's age, there are still virus free original pieces of it because it was naturalized on trees at the Fennell Orchid Jungle while it was still clean.
Jerry Fischer treated some of his selfing of 'Cashen's' with Colchicine to increase the ploidey. it produced a fine variety he calls 'Hyperion' it's too bad it probably won't breed due to it's ploidey.
-Patrick
