Cattleya trianae flamea ‘Sorpresa’

[DrLeslieEe]

A surprise blooming from this cultivar under the care of David B. from my Redlands import last October. The shape isn’t the best now as it is still establishing.

I used the pollen on a full shaped trianae ‘Cashen’s’ FCC/AOS, hoping to get rounder flameas. Cashen’s is a proven parent for round flowers and may be a tetraploid. In this case, the progeny might be triploid and the line ends (unless Sorpresa is a tetraploid too?).

Finger crossed!!

Here’s Sorpresa:



Here’s Cashen’s:



And side by side. Both flowers around 14-15 cm.

 

[dodidoki]

First is especially fabulous because of its solid lip.

 

[monocotman]

Wow another of your wonderful catts! It’ll be interesting to see how many flammeas come through. I thought that it was a fairly recessive trait but I’ve heard that cashens also carries this trait and many of its progeny have some flammea marks so maybe most of them will striped.

 

[GuRu]

What a great surprise your 'Sorpresa'is ....she's a beauty.

 

[BrucherT]

Just wow.

 

[dodidoki]

Wow another of your wonderful catts! It’ll be interesting to see how many flammeas come through. I thought that it was a fairly recessive trait but I’ve heard that cashens also carries this trait and many of its progeny have some flammea marks so maybe most of them will striped.

David, I think, it is dominant trait.Eg. flamea is F, normal is n, plants with this genes Fn is must be flamea .If you make selfings, outcomes are FF, Fn, Fn, and nn.So 25 percent of plants will be normal, because flamea is the dominant. If flamea type were recessive, all of plants must be flamea...ff x ff = ff, ff, ff, ff.This fact explain that selfings of flameas are turned to be normal forms.

 

[Djthomp28]

Stunning! Images like these make me want to find space for big Catts.

 

[terryros]

Leslie, 'Sorpessa' is a better shape than 'Kathleen', right?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Leslie, 'Sorpessa' is a better shape than 'Kathleen', right?

Oh yes, Sorpresa at its best is an amazing full round flower. Here is original pic:

 

[DrLeslieEe]

David, I think, it is dominant trait.Eg. flamea is F, normal is n, plants with this genes Fn is must be flamea .If you make selfings, outcomes are FF, Fn, Fn, and nn.So 25 percent of plants will be normal, because flamea is the dominant. If flamea type were recessive, all of plants must be flamea...ff x ff = ff, ff, ff, ff.This fact explain that selfings of flameas are turned to be normal forms.

Correct Istvan.

Some plants are FF and others Fn where F is dominant flare gene and n is normal.

Cashen’s seems to be Fn.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Stunning! Images like these make me want to find space for big Catts.

There’s a space in corner I see lol.

 

[Ozpaph]

love sorpresa. Why are the lips so different?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

love sorpresa. Why are the lips so different?

Sorpresa has the solid lip from sangretoro lineage.

 

[monocotman]

Just a small note, for the correct genetic notation, the flammea is F and the normal is f.
I wonder whether there is there any difference in expression between the heterozygous flammeas that are Ff and the full homozygous ones FF?
Could there be any dose effect?

 

[eds]

I seriously doubt that this expression would be any form of simple single gene locus. Where you have degrees of expression they are usually either a single gene for expression with a more complex modifier gene controlling expression or a multi locus situation.

Simple, single gene loci are rare other than for things such as albinism.

 

[monocotman]

This would be my thought as well Ed but maybe someone has flowered out enough plants from several crosses to make an assessment,
David

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Just a small note, for the correct genetic notation, the flammea is F and the normal is f.
I wonder whether there is there any difference in expression between the heterozygous flammeas that are Ff and the full homozygous ones FF?
Could there be any dose effect?

I use n so that it’s easily seen in chart as ‘normal’ flower. To me ff means mini flares lol.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I seriously doubt that this expression would be any form of simple single gene locus. Where you have degrees of expression they are usually either a single gene for expression with a more complex modifier gene controlling expression or a multi locus situation.

Simple, single gene loci are rare other than for things such as albinism.

You are right.

Like eye color or any anthocyanin expression, I’m sure there are multiple genes responsible for the amount and intensity of the flarings, modified by regulatory and modifier genes.

 

[southernbelle]

I used the pollen on a full shaped trianae ‘Cashen’s’ FCC/AOS, hoping to get rounder flameas. Cashen’s is a proven parent for round flowers and may be a tetraploid. In this case, the progeny might be triploid and the line ends (unless Sorpresa is a tetraploid too?).

Finger crossed!!

Here’s Sorpresa:

View attachment 38511View attachment 38507

Here’s Cashen’s:

View attachment 38508View attachment 38509

And side by side. Both flowers around 14-15 cm.

View attachment 38510

Leslie, it’s just not fair!!!!! You give me yet another trianae flamea to lust after. But, ‘Kathleen’ will always be my favorite in this class, because it reminds me of your generosity in sharing your wealth of knowledge and photos here. Even though she needs better form, I can’t believe any would out grow or outbloom her.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Leslie, it’s just not fair!!!!! You give me yet another trianae flamea to lust after. But, ‘Kathleen’ will always be my favorite in this class, because it reminds me of your generosity in sharing your wealth of knowledge and photos here. Even though she needs better form, I can’t believe any would out grow or outbloom her.

Hehe… there are so many flameas out there that can whet our appetites! Though I have many here, Kathleen is the most vigorous grower and branches freely. So, you did get a fabulous cultivar in the end.