P. charlesworthii var. lannaense

[werner.freitag]

I dont know if it was already in the forum ?
I found a picture from Olaf Gruss and from a Thai source on Facebook.

 

[Ozpaph]

interesting colour but to my eye just doesnt look quite right.

 

[P.K.Hansen]

My first thought was hybrid

 

[GuRu]

My first thought was hybrid

Indeed, if you just see the images you may think of a natural hybrid...maybe with Paph. coccineum.....but this variety is officially described and identified by sort of gene analysis. No need to say.....the intense colouration of these flowers is striking.

 

[ORG]

The authors this possibility too. But decided then to describe it as a variety of chrlesworthii. For the moment it is really the correct decision befor we know more about the plant.

 

[DirGo]

Here is my very personal observation, not as a botanist, not given by any in-situ experience and not challenging any expert...
I always found the most striking attribute of charlesworthii the beautiful white staminode and the broader flag. I would have preferred this to be described as a separate species. I have seen many other plants with less variation that resulted in species level separation.
My fear is that once people start mixing all these charlesworthii varieties in crosses... the unique staminode and flag effects will fade.
The flowers are beautiful, that's for sure.

 

[richgarrison]

The authors this possibility too. But decided then to describe it as a variety of chrlesworthii. For the moment it is really the correct decision befor we know more about the plant.

is this one (circled) described as a variety?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Here is my very personal observation, not as a botanist, not given by any in-situ experience and not challenging any expert...
I always found the most striking attribute of charlesworthii the beautiful white staminode and the broader flag. I would have preferred this to be described as a separate species. I have seen many other plants with less variation that resulted in species level separation.
My fear is that once people start mixing all these charlesworthii varieties in crosses... the unique staminode and flag effects will fade.
The flowers are beautiful, that's for sure.

I agree.

The original traits may be lost by mixing the two forms. Eventhough genotype may be similar, the phenotype is too different.

So ideally, the two should be separated in breeding until further notice.

 

[Guldal]

The original traits may be lost by mixing the two forms. Eventhough genotype may be similar, the phenotype is too different.

So ideally, the two should be separated in breeding until further notice.

You say adductum, I say anitum,
anitum, adductum,
the Oceanic bunkum,
a most distorted factum

Yet another bitter comment upon the AOC's foolish decision to sink anitum into adductum and thus completely messing up the breeding lines for P. Johanna Burchardt and Wössner Black Wings, respectively!

 

[DrLeslieEe]

You say adductum, I say anitum,
anitum, adductum,
the Oceanic bunkum,
a most distorted factum

Yet another bitter comment upon the AOC's foolish decision to sink anitum into adductum and thus completely messing up the breeding lines for P. Johanna Burchardt and Wössner Black Wings, respectively!

Let’s play nice and educate the unbeknownst lol.

 

[werner.freitag]

good discussion

another remark: the habitat is Lampang, this province is further south , south of ChiangMai
separated from the habitat of the common species by nearly 300km
the Thai name is P. Doi Tung , Doi Tung is a mountain area close to the Burmese border up north

how does this work ??

 

[Ozpaph]

I agree Guidal but thats the current rules.
Thankfully most of 'us' know which 'type' we have incase someone changes their mind again.

 

[orchidmaven]

In my opinion for what it's worth. Looking at the variability of the many examples, it looks to be a hybrid.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

In my opinion for what it's worth. Looking at the variability of the many examples, it looks to be a hybrid.

I suspect a natural hybrid between charlesworthii and likely with one of the barbigerum family (coccineum as Guru mentioned?).

 

[werner.freitag]

what, if its not natural...............................................

I was possible to get collected sulivongii in this area a few years ago.

 

[BrucherT]

Indeed, if you just see the images you may think of a natural hybrid...maybe with Paph. coccineum.....but this variety is officially described and identified by sort of gene analysis. No need to say.....the intense colouration of these flowers is striking.

Where’s the paper?

 

[GuRu]

Where’s the paper?

Brucher, it's the .pdf file in the attachment of post #1.

 

[BrucherT]

Brucher, it's the .pdf file in the attachment of post #1.

thank you! I completely missed it