Kelp / Seaweed Additives

[Ray]

Some comments on the "Natrakelp":

1) The natural hormones are all cytokinins

2) They added IBA to provide auxins, and it's synthetic and quite unstable.

3) That is a very dilute formulation.

 

[Ozpaph]

Some comments on the "Natrakelp":

1) The natural hormones are all cytokinins

2) They added IBA to provide auxins, and it's synthetic and quite unstable.

3) That is a very dilute formulation.

thanks for your input.
I'm not sure what else is available downunder - will keep looking.

 

[emydura]

thanks for your input.
I'm not sure what else is available downunder - will keep looking.

Don't you use Trio™ (CMB) Foliar? That already has kelp in it.

 

[Ozpaph]

Don't you use Trio™ (CMB) Foliar? That already has kelp in it.

yes I do, but not sure about the 'hormone' content - which is the object of my mid week foliar feeding programme.

 

[consettbay2003]

Ray, I would appreciate your thoughts on what quantity of kelpak to add to a gallon of water and also how often you would recommend using it.

 

[Ray]

I may be the sole retail outlet in North America, but I'm learning, too.

The advice I've gotten from the manufacturer is primarily based upon food crops and turf, although they did provide some minimal hydroponics experience, as well.

Don't use below a concentration of 500:1, as it will have no appreciable effect.

Start at 400:1 and see how it goes, increasing the dosage as you see fit.

Vegetables, tomatoes - 100:1 every 2-3 weeks

Turf - 200:1 monthly
​

I am using it at 256:1 (1 tablespoon per gallon) at every watering, in addition to 75 ppm N via K-Lite. My new "Solo" product matches that, but I am targeting smaller-scale, windowsill growers, and recommending it to be used once every 2- to 4 weeks.

 

[terryros]

Ray, do you have any educated guess about whether Kelpac is likely to be beneficial throughout the entire growth cycle or perhaps only up to spike initiation? Perhaps we don't start again until towards the end of blooming?

 

[Ray]

I have no idea, Terry.

I am applying it to plants in all stages, but they have not necessarily had it for their entire cycles yet. If I use the importer's grape example, it can play a tole in spiking and flowering, too.

Surely their are others here with more general seaweed experience that can chime in.

 

[suss16]

Wow... I have been using it (Kelpak) at 1/4 tsp per gallon. I guess I really need to increase the dose?

Funny, I thought my most of my new fat root growth was due to the Kelpak and not my or Ray's version of K-lite?

 

[Rick]

True enough, Rick.

Kelpak is 11mg/L auxins (7 different ones) and 0.031mg/L cytokinins (12 of them), giving it a grand total of just over 11 ppm hormones.

Yes, and I bet most out there don't have a good feeling for how little 11 mg (0.011gr) of a substance is within 1000 grams of water.

Even though kelp products are thick and gooey, they are probably about 95% water anyway. That means there would be about 49.989 grams (4998 mg) of other stuff besides the hormones in every liter of product.

 

[Rick]

Funny, I thought my most of my new fat root growth was due to the Kelpak and not my or Ray's version of K-lite?

Hormones direct the direction of growth but do not actually produce/support growth on their own. That's what the fert is for. Remember the plants will produce the hormones themselves, but they can't produce the macro nutrients needed to make growth.

 

[Ray]

The importer of Kelpak has told me that the use of these products tends to increase the number and size of the vascular bundles in plants.

Improved vascular bundles means more/faster transport of nutrients and sugars throughout the plant, leading to better flowering and fruiting.

I have had a Phrag Cape Sunset for years that was "typically frustrating" in that as soon as a second blossom opened, the first would immediately drop off, even though it looked pristine. For the last couple of months, it has gotten K-Lite and Kelpak.

Here it is again, now in day 7 of two blossoms!!! Coincidence?

 

[keithrs]

I noticed something interesting over the weekend.....

I had been feeding kelp to all my plants(orchids, garden alike) over the last several months, but I had stopped about two weeks ago. Over the weekend I was going through my collection and noticed that all most all new roots on my orchids had stalled in there growth. You think this could be related to the growth hormones or lack of... that caused this?

 

[Rick]

I noticed something interesting over the weekend.....

I had been feeding kelp to all my plants(orchids, garden alike) over the last several months, but I had stopped about two weeks ago. Over the weekend I was going through my collection and noticed that all most all new roots on my orchids had stalled in there growth. You think this could be related to the growth hormones or lack of... that caused this?

Is this on mounted plants or plants in clear pots that you can see the roots day to day?

Especially if mounted you may consider the humidity levels before suspecting the loss of kelp derived hormone.

Also how do the "stalled" roots look. Are the tips looking dead and burnt or still green/white?

Is the whole plant stalled or just the roots? Even with hormone supplements roots start and stop based on what the rest of the plant is doing at different times of years.

Not an easy one to answer Keithrs.

 

[keithrs]

Is this on mounted plants or plants in clear pots that you can see the roots day to day?

Especially if mounted you may consider the humidity levels before suspecting the loss of kelp derived hormone.

Also how do the "stalled" roots look. Are the tips looking dead and burnt or still green/white?

Is the whole plant stalled or just the roots? Even with hormone supplements roots start and stop based on what the rest of the plant is doing at different times of years.

Not an easy one to answer Keithrs.

It is on all plants that I can see the root systems... Seedlings to specimens. There are a few plants that are potted that I can't see the root systems. Some of my warm plants and my seedlings are in a grow tent with a humidifier and same thing seems to happen. Some plants have green tips still and other are white all the way to the tip except for a small dot the size of a ball point pen. Everything else still to be growing still.

I just found it weird that this time of year when most orchids are growing roots like crazy that the roots that started stalled.

 

[Stone]

I'm always on the lookout for anything or method that might improve root growth. I think it's worth considering the importance of Boron which I have learned is absolutely vital for root growth and root tip formation. In fact it's apparently as important as Ca although in extremly smaller quanaties.
The fact that B is not held on colloids and is one of the most easily leached nutrients means that without a constant supply, it's quite possible to reach a state of deficiency which will quickly put a stop to all root growth.
It's probably unlikly that most people will have deficiency of B if they are feeding regularly with a complete fert. and I think kelp has an amount in it but this could vary? So the problem is probably rare but I thought it was worth a mention.
Interesting to note B aids Ca uptake and high Ca in media can lead to deficiency of B.
While looking at trace elements for treating raw organic p/media I found that once Fe Cu and Zn were added they are held tightly against loss through leaching Mn to a lesser extent and much less for B.
So if you are using very pure water and feeding little it could be worth checking your B. If your adding a little well water like Rick, you are maybe raising your B levels.
Keith, if your root tips are not black and dead, but just sealed off, I think you have another problem. What have you changed recently? or what about the weather/humidity?

Some light reading if your interested.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC440008/pdf/plntphys00341-0003.pdf

Mike

 

[Rick]

Both K lite and traditional high K MSU have 0.025% B. Most of the kelp extracts I've seen also have B present, but there's no reason to suspect that the B concentration in K lite alone is deficient.


I conducted a toxicity test in our lab on Boron and needed to check local water for Boron concentration for control water. Boron concentration for middle TN surface and well waters is non detect at 50 ug/L. So my 10% addition of well water to RO has no significant Boron. My plants get it pretty much strictly from the fert and kelp.

May want to look at something more fundamental like pH.

 

[keithrs]

Thanks for the read Mike!

The weather has been getting warmer in the afternoon but it has been overcast intel about 11 or so.(May gray) Wind has also picked up. Maybe the plants feel too dry even tho the humidity has been in the 60's. Or maybe the humidity drops far more then I really know. I find it odd that the plants in my grow tent have stalled also. I do check the pH every time I fill my trash can and/or fertilize. I have started using about 30 ppm of N instead of 80 ppm tho I did hold fertilizer for several weeks while I was still using kelp. I have not had a pH lower than 5.9 after correcting it with city water. I found some of my plants to be very dark green. I'm finding that 80 ppm N is far to much for every watering.

I do have boron in powder form for my garden plants. It's very easy to overdose boron. I use 1 oz for 5 gal. when I mix up dry fertilizer for my garden plants.

 

[Rick]

Thanks for the read Mike!

The weather has been getting warmer in the afternoon but it has been overcast intel about 11 or so.(May gray) Wind has also picked up. Maybe the plants feel too dry even tho the humidity has been in the 60's. Or maybe the humidity drops far more then I really know. I find it odd that the plants in my grow tent have stalled also. I do check the pH every time I fill my trash can and/or fertilize. I have started using about 30 ppm of N instead of 80 ppm tho I did hold fertilizer for several weeks while I was still using kelp. I have not had a pH lower than 5.9 after correcting it with city water. I found some of my plants to be very dark green. I'm finding that 80 ppm N is far to much for every watering.

I do have boron in powder form for my garden plants. It's very easy to overdose boron. I use 1 oz for 5 gal. when I mix up dry fertilizer for my garden plants.

I don't think its time to panic and supplement boron separately yet. Watch for another couple of weeks (hopefully getting sunny again) and maybe get a few cheap hygrometers to see what your humidity is really at (my plants really prefer 70% or greater).

 

[Stone]

.

It's very easy to overdose boron.

Yes VERY easy. I would be extremly careful! usually the first trace element to become toxic. It should be disolved in boiling water. I agree with Rick about holding off for a while or maybe try it ( .05% ) on a couple of ''expendables'' and then wait a month to see what happens?