Kelp / Seaweed Additives

[Ozpaph]

If you fertilise at 1/8 the recommended soil fertilisation rate, that would make it 1/40 the recommended foliar rate.

In relation to increased fertilisation through the roots, I have read it from several sources. It is explained here in point 9. Point 3 talks about the increased numbers of stomata on the bottom sides of the leaf.

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2010/03/top-10-most-frequently-asked-foliar-fertilising-questions/

Some more useful information from these sites -

http://www.spraygro.com.au/foliar_feeding.asp


http://www.ecochem.com/t_foliar.html

David, what wetting agent are you using?

 

[Ray]

(snip)Foliar sprays allow the plant to take advantage of all the trace elements by absorbing them though there stomata.

That was what I thought, too. However, having purchased a couple of textbooks on the subject, I now find that ONLY gases (including nutrient vapors, like ammonia) pass through stomata. However, the ectodesmata that tend to be near the guard cells that surround stomata DO provide something of a pathway.

I think it's interesting that the less ionic a liquid is, the easier it will pass into the leaf tissue. That may explain why many foliar nutrients generally contain more urea than ammonium- or nitrate-based nitrogen.

 

[emydura]

David, what wetting agent are you using?

The fertiliser already has a sticking agent in it so I don't do anything else.

That was what I thought, too. However, having purchased a couple of textbooks on the subject, I now find that ONLY gases (including nutrient vapors, like ammonia) pass through stomata. However, the ectodesmata that tend to be near the guard cells that surround stomata DO provide something of a pathway.

I think it's interesting that the less ionic a liquid is, the easier it will pass into the leaf tissue. That may explain why many foliar nutrients generally contain more urea than ammonium- or nitrate-based nitrogen.

The 2nd link I posted states this -

Stomata has very little role to play in foliar absorption of nutrients. All nutrients diffuse through minute pore (1nm size) on the cuticle membrane. Cuticle is the outermost layer on the leaf surface, which prevents excessive water loss. The cuticular pores are lined with intense negative charge that favours movement of potassium, calcium, magnesium, trace elements and ammonium ions. Urea diffuse easily because it is an electrically neutral molecule. Ions such as phosphates, sulphate, nitrate move slowly, hence multiple applications are required.

 

[keithrs]

I guess my knowledge is old school... I need to up date it!

 

[keithrs]

Updating my knowledge....

Stomata

 

[Stone]

If you fertilise at 1/8 the recommended soil fertilisation rate, that would make it 1/40 the recommended foliar rate.

What I mean is that I'm fertilizing p/media at about 1/8 recommeded rate so if the leaves happen to get wet in the process, all good and well. You are obviously having good results feeding at your rate but it seems a tad high to me given what we have learned about habitat? But that brings back the old argument about nature v captivity.

In relation to increased fertilisation through the roots, I have read it from several sources. It is explained here in point 9. Point 3 talks about the increased numbers of stomata on the bottom sides of the leaf.

Ok I'll give you that one but I would like to see some trial results from non manufactures/dealers. It still seems a bit vague? Need to read moreoke:

If you read the page I posted above it will say that monocots (including orchids) tend to have an equal number of stomata on both sides of the leaf but we are tending towards hair splitting on that one now that I learn stomata have little to do with nutrient absorbtion.

Cheers

Mike.

 

[Stone]

I normally don't have high humidity. 10-30% is normal....

Hang on!! 10%-30%?? How can you grow paphs in that? Thats desert territory. On the hottest, driest days we get a north wind blowing down from the central Australian desert ( the dryest continent on earth ) and I don't think we get down to 10%? outside, let alone in the g/house.

 

[emydura]

What I mean is that I'm fertilizing p/media at about 1/8 recommeded rate so if the leaves happen to get wet in the process, all good and well. You are obviously having good results feeding at your rate but it seems a tad high to me given what we have learned about habitat? But that brings back the old argument about nature v captivity.



Ok I'll give you that one but I would like to see some trial results from non manufactures/dealers. It still seems a bit vague? Need to read moreoke:

If you read the page I posted above it will say that monocots (including orchids) tend to have an equal number of stomata on both sides of the leaf but we are tending towards hair splitting on that one now that I learn stomata have little to do with nutrient absorbtion.

Cheers

Mike.

I wonder sometimes if I am fertilising too heavy but I haven't noticed any problems yet. I think the multi-florals in particular are pretty heavy feeders.

The link below shows a comparison of the root systems of plants grown with foliar fertilisers versus soil fertlisers. See the photo link at the bottom of the page. I can't say how scientific this was but the foliar fertilised plants have clearly a better root system.

http://rtcw.com.au/view/energizing-plants-foliar-fertilizers

 

[keithrs]

Hang on!! 10%-30%?? How can you grow paphs in that? Thats desert territory. On the hottest, driest days we get a north wind blowing down from the central Australian desert ( the dryest continent on earth ) and I don't think we get down to 10%? outside, let alone in the g/house.

I live in high desert... Some times it's down to 1%... I have only three paph at this point. Rest are mostly aussie dens and catts/laelia with a few others mixed in. I had a huge problem with seedling... In order to keep them from resperating to death I had to water them constently witch would cause them to rot. I have finely build a small encloser to house them inside..... Boy what a difference. I'm in the process of building a small green house(5x10 or so) to house the more tempered ones.

 

[Rick]

I live in high desert... Some times it's down to 1%... I have only three paph a this point. Rest are mostly aussie dens and catts/laelia with a few others mixed in. I had a huge problem with seedling... In order to keep them from resperating to death I had to water them constently witch would cause them to rot. I have finely build a small encloser to house them inside..... Boy what a difference. I'm in the process of building a small green house(5x10 or so) to house the more tempered ones.

YUP. I grew up in SO Cal and when those Santa Anna winds kick in I've seen watered green lawns shrivel up and brown in half a day in Irvine, Ca! It's not as bad here in TN, but its amazing how dry it can get with a north wind and electric heaters going in the GH. I've needed to build an air recirculating system for my wet pad, and add a fogger to keep humidity at good levels in the winter.

Maintaing high humidity was my first big orchid culture epipheny about 9 years ago.

 

[keithrs]

YUP. I grew up in SO Cal and when those Santa Anna winds kick in I've seen watered green lawns shrivel up and brown in half a day in Irvine, Ca! It's not as bad here in TN, but its amazing how dry it can get with a north wind and electric heaters going in the GH. I've needed to build an air recirculating system for my wet pad, and add a fogger to keep humidity at good levels in the winter.

Maintaing high humidity was my first big orchid culture epipheny about 9 years ago.

I think mine was fixing the hard water problem.... After I did that I had a huge increase in plant growth. Humidity was not a huge concern intel I started messing with seedling and more sensitive orchids.

 

[eggshells]

I think the name of the product I'm using is Seaplex and has something like .01-0-0 listed on the bottle.

http://www.botanicare.com/Seaplex-001-0-0--P80.aspx

Hi Rick, I bought a bottle of seaplex. How often do you use it and what is the application per gallon of water?

Thanks.

 

[Rick]

Hi Rick, I bought a bottle of seaplex. How often do you use it and what is the application per gallon of water?

Thanks.

I'm using it once a week with the K-lite formula. 1/4 tsp per gal (same rate as what I'm doing with Klite at present)

 

[Ray]

An update on the use of the "Solo" product (MSU + Kelpak):

I have found a negative: I have to water more.

You may recall that I started by using my tropical houseplants as "guinea pigs", and they are all doing very well, but the S/H pots (I use the kind with gauges for them) are needing to be watered more often than before.

I first thought that it might be evaporation due to winter's dry air, but lately it has been very mild (15°-20° above our historical average) and moist, so that can't be the issue.

I unpotted an aglaonema (Chinese evergreen), and the root system is unbelievable!

It makes sense, doesn't it? More roots = faster water uptake.

I have started using a variant - K-Lite + Kelpak - in the greenhouse, but considering that I water at every opportunity the sunlight gives me, I doubt I'll see the reservoirs draining faster.

 

[Rick]

I don't know if I'd call it a negative that root growth has increased even if labor requirements for upkeep have increased accordingly.

Ultimately will you end up with a better plant with better roots?

Or am I missing a bit of sarcasm?

 

[Ray]

Or am I missing a bit of sarcasm?

Yep oke:

 

[Rick]

Yep oke:

I'm getting slow in my old age!

 

[Ray]

So while the all of the orchids are on a steady K-Lite diet, I tried K-Lite + Kelpak on a few vandaceous plants. The ones getting K-Lite only are growing nicely, putting out new roots, growing new foliage nicely.

This is one getting K-Lite + Kelpak - look at the branching roots!

 

[Rick]

Yes, I like.

Using the paphs/phrags in the basket routine, I'm also seeing a lot of root growth.

However, I don't have a no-kelp condition to compare to.

 

[eggshells]

Hey Rick, I'm getting lots of growths as well.