Submitting plants recently purchased in bloom: ethical or unethical?

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Candace

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I guess people have different emphasis on their hobby. Seems many of you are concerned with growing. I am much more concerned with hybridizing and genetics than growing.
True. I would like a reputation in the orchid community as a good grower, not a great "buyer" or someone with deep pockets.
 

paphioland

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We aren't talking about just buying a plant, we're talking about buying a plant in bloom and then having it judged. Nobody here is arguing that awards should be removed when plants change hands, and from reading the thread, I'm not sure where you even got that notion from.
But it makes sense right if you use the same thought pattern? Why should someone get the plant never have bloomed it themselves and have an awarded plant. Shouldn't they have to bloom the plant again and not only bloom it but up to award quality?
 

kentuckiense

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But it makes sense right if you use the same thought pattern? Why should someone get the plant never have bloomed it themselves and have an awarded plant. Shouldn't they have to bloom the plant again and not only bloom it but up to award quality?
What thought pattern? Look back a few posts. I accept that HCC/AM/FCC are solely based on flower quality. I've said twice now that my original post was poorly worded and not thought out well and that Candace's first post best summed up my views. Essentially, I don't see the "fun" in buying plants in bloom and then having those blooms awarded. However, as you pointed out, we all focus on different aspects of orchids culture, so to each their own.
 

paphioland

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I am not going to get into names but I know many of the best growers in world do this often. It aids in breeding and profit for them. If they buy a plant for breeding it makes sense to get it awarded so that when they breed with it the cross will be worth more. Unless u are someone like Terry who already has the reputation of being an outstanding hybridizer and doesnt need awards. The divisions of the plants also are easier to sell.

I personally care little about judging but it does help add validity in the mind of the public to a cross's potential.
 

paphioland

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True. I would like a reputation in the orchid community as a good grower, not a great "buyer" or someone with deep pockets.
I would like to someday be a great hybridizer and bloom my own crosses. To do this I hope to cont to develop my "eye" and see as many plants of a cross as I can. To do this you also need great genetics. I don't have the time to grow out hundreds of each cross and select the best. I have a demanding full time job. This is my passion and hobby. I don't want to make it into work.
 
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Ernie

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I agree that AOS flower quality awards can most certainly be awarded to plants fresh off the sales table. Just means you have a good eye! The judging handbook states that a plant considered for *cultural awards* must have been in the growers care for... six months is it?

Our local OS requires a plant be bloomed by the grower for the monthly meeting ribbon judging. I like that idea because there, it's more about the grower and not the plant.

-Ernie
 

paphioland

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What thought pattern? Look back a few posts. I accept that HCC/AM/FCC are solely based on flower quality. I've said twice now that my original post was poorly worded and not thought out well and that Candace's first post best summed up my views. Essentially, I don't see the "fun" in buying plants in bloom and then having those blooms awarded. However, as you pointed out, we all focus on different aspects of orchids culture, so to each their own.
I think this difference all stems from you putting alot of value in awarding.
To base your "fun" on blooming a plant and then getting it awarded is not what is fun for me.

Sometimes I get the itch to take a plant to get awarded because the process is kind of exciting like gambling at a casino. Lots of anticipation and sometimes you get to see some great paphs and interesting commentary. THat process is exciting for me.

I have only gotten a plant I have not bloomed awarded once. But even if I had more often I wouldn't care. I know the quality of each of my paphs. I definitely don't need awards to certify my growing ability.
 

NYEric

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I don't see any problem in taking a superior plant to judging no matter how/when it is obtained. If it's superior and not seen [taken to judging], how will the standard be raised? If you feel guilty about having a purchased in bloom plant awarded name it after the grower! Personally I don't take plants in for judging although next year maybe...:)
 

Hien

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I agree that AOS flower quality awards can most certainly be awarded to plants fresh off the sales table. Just means you have a good eye! The judging handbook states that a plant considered for *cultural awards* must have been in the growers care for... six months is it?

Our local OS requires a plant be bloomed by the grower for the monthly meeting ribbon judging. I like that idea because there, it's more about the grower and not the plant.

-Ernie
-My sentiment is that there is no harm to take a plant (that you grow or buy) for an award .If they don't, we will never be awared of such plants exist (although I never did either, unless they create a new award category for the successively growing smaller plant, I can keep most of my compots in bonsai size forever:rollhappy:.)
Some growers do enter to validate the plants potential (just as paphioland mentioned) and not as an ego strip.
That said, if you give me an awarded plant, I can reduce that plant to non-awarded status in no time:eek:.:sob:
 

slippertalker

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I understand both sides of this argument. There is a large amount of accomplishment growing plants from flask and having them recognized as superior. Along with the genetics involved, a plant needs the best culture possible to show off to the best of it's ability. In my opinion the best flowers are a combination of breeding and culture.

Regarding purchasing plants of award quality then receiving awards. I have never done this myself, but I'm sure it is done especially from certain wholesalers. Many of the winners at the Tokyo Dome show are purchased from Terry at OZ and others, and receive JOGA awards and also monetary awards. For these people, spending a big pile of money for an exceptional plant then having it awarded can produce a net profit. I don't perceive this as honorable or particularly ethical, but it isn't against the rules of the game.
 

tocarmar

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I am trying to understand this thread. As I have never brought a plant for judging. I might be bring 1 this month I buy my plants off of e-bay or through growers websites. Beign that I also breed most of the lady slippers that I buy. I like them to be in sheath. I try not to buy them in bloom beacause the pollen is better within the first 4-5 days of beign open. So it grows on to flower with my care for the month or so until it opens. Now, my Question.. I bought the plant from a seller/ reseller weather or not they flowered it before (could be a 1st bloom seedling, or a 10 growth speciman). I would like to take it to be judged as the flower is an exceptional example of the species/hybrid. Is this O.K.??

Tom
 

paphioland

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Of course it is OK. Don't listen to others do what you want. It is perfectly within the rules. There is nothing unethical or dishonarable about it. It will be a good experience for you also. It can be exciting. If you believe in awards all plants should be evaluated if possible.
 

Candace

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I would like to take it to be judged as the flower is an exceptional example of the species/hybrid. Is this O.K.??
There are no rules against entering a plant you bought in bloom. For me, there would be no pleasure in the award since I would feel like I didn't earn it, the grower did. I guess that's what it's all about. For me, I've earned my awards and have deserved them. But it's all about what is your end goal.
 

tocarmar

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Yes, I believe in the award sytem. Plants /flowers & culture awards they all for me anyways goes back to the initial thing that is beign judged,, the flower. Yes the culture & genetics all play a part in its growth to ultimitaly bloom. It should not matter who grew it longer, it is the 1 that saw the beauty of it to bring it to be judged. (I think all of them should be judged)LOL
But, if a person is selling, say a rock, & the buyer buys the rock & gets it judged as a diamond who is the 1 responsible to receive the award the seller or buyer!!

Tom
 

Candace

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That said, if you give me an awarded plant, I can reduce that plant to non-awarded status in no time.
Hein, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your honesty and humor. You remind me of a good friend that used to be a member of my OS before he moved away. I passed him one evening at a meeting and asked' "How's the orchids?" I fully expected a great or fine...and I loved his answer. He said, "Killing them left and right!!" We had a good laugh. We all have casualties but so many people don't like to admit that. I find it refreshing you've got such a good attitude.
 

Hien

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Sorry, I couldn't resist. :rollhappy:



Umm..there's this flavum Phrag St. Ouen :poke:
Eric, that plant is not awarded yet.
If it grows, I cut you a piece, and you can enter the plant for judging.
In fact, If I remember correctly, maybe Lien gave a piece of this one to both Blake & Zach?
Did Lien, Blake, or Zach ever enter it?
 

Candace

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But, if a person is selling, say a rock, & the buyer buys the rock & gets it judged as a diamond who is the 1 responsible to receive the award the seller or buyer!!
No one "grows" a rock. No culture or work required.
 
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