Submitting plants recently purchased in bloom: ethical or unethical?

Slippertalk Orchid Forum

Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:

Candace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,855
Reaction score
0
Location
Elk Grove, CA
If I were Queen for a day and ruler of the universe, I'd support changing the AOS awarding system similar to Australia's(Bolero's). But, it will never change due to the business aspect of it. Vendors who sell trophy hunters plants wouldn't support this. And money makes the world go 'round.
 

paphioland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
11
There may be "trophy hunters" but who cares. I don't worry about what others do. Awarding all plants that are worthy is good for the orchid growing community. I truly believe this. Actually I almost never take plants to get awarded and feel guilty that I am being selfish swallowing great plants and letting them dissapear into my collection. That is why I am breeding. Again I don't see awards and think of the person I think of the plant and maybe the hybridizer. It is all about the plant lol. That is why it says exibitor. I guess I just don't place emphasis on the people or the award all that much. If someone likes awards and it makes them happy let them get them. I don't care it is not hurting me! I enjoy the plants I enjoy no matter.
 

paphioland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
11
Award process can be educational as well as exciting so I think this thread could be bad for a beginer. I encourage all begginers to take plants they think are good whether you just got them or not. You will get a kick out of the experience and you will definitely learn things. Sometimes not the right things lol but most of the time you will hear good stuff to learn from.
 

Candace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,855
Reaction score
0
Location
Elk Grove, CA
I think this thread could be bad for a begginer.
I think beginners should know there are a good amount of orchid growers out there who will hold little respect for someone who wins an award off of a plant they didn't grow. And there's obviously growers that don't give this a second thought. I think it was summed it up well that we have to do what we think is right.
 

paphioland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
11
I think beginners should know there are a good amount of orchid growers out there who will hold little respect for someone who wins an award off of a plant they didn't grow. And there's obviously growers that don't give this a second thought. I think it was summed it up well that we have to do what we think is right.
I have now asked 3 of the top paph growers in the world and not one thought anything was wrong with it.

Would you really base the respect you have for someone based on this? There is nothing unethical about it. They just have a different outlook and value system. Shouldn't respect be based on important things like do they help people, are they good at their jobs, are they passionate about paphs, are they fun, interesting........
 

paphioland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
11
again what constitutes growing? From flask? Lets be totally honest most of the time it is not hard to grow established, multi generation from the jungle paphs, esp hybrids. Blooms are based on more then just genetics and an individual's culture. Sometimes everything just lines up right and the plant puts up a slightly better bloom. Maybe the day length was just right. Or the shade from the plant next to it gave it just the right amount of light. The temp during the summer was just right and during the other seasons too initiate spiking just when it should. I guess you could micromanage these things but NO ONE does. And no one knows the exact perfect ratio. It prob actually varies from plant to plant.
 

Candace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,855
Reaction score
0
Location
Elk Grove, CA
I have now asked 3 of the top paph growers in the world and not one thought anything was wrong with it.
Yes, and like I said they make a lot of $ off of trophy hunters. So, I'd assume they'd be very supportive of this practice. If you like it or not, there are many folks who think and believe differently from you.

Would you really base the respect you have for someone based on this? There is nothing unethical about it. They just have a different outlook and value system.
Well, since their value system would be the complete opposite of mine I wouldn't have any respect, no.
 

paphioland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
11
Yes, and like I said they make a lot of $ off of trophy hunters. So, I'd assume they'd be very supportive of this practice. If you like it or not, there are many folks who think and believe differently from you.

Well, since their value system would be the complete opposite of mine I wouldn't have any respect, no.
So here is a better question for you Candace. You lack respect for people who award plants that they did not "grow" prior to bloom, whatever your requirements maybe for this. Right? So what is the difference between this and buying an awarded plant. That person didn't grow it right? It was awarded on a bloom they did not "culture". If someone buys the whole awarded plant what makes that different?

Regardless the rules clearly state that the award is for the plant. This is like having the race horse Secretariat and his owners were to have died. Then the chidren have no interest in racing and want the money and sell him. Should the new owners not race him?? Just because they did not grow him from birth. The whole horse racing community would have lost a hero and a legend in this pretend senario I have created.
 

Candace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,855
Reaction score
0
Location
Elk Grove, CA
Does Michael Jordan's trainer say wow I am an awesome trainer look how good MJ is at basketball?
If I had to water, fertilize and wipe an immobile Michael's butt for life then yeah, I'd probably take the credit and say what an awesome trainer I am.:rollhappy:
 

paphioland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
11
This has been interesting but I am going to stop perseverating. Thank you for the discussion.
 

Candace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,855
Reaction score
0
Location
Elk Grove, CA
This has been interesting but I am going to stop perseverating. Thank you for the discussion.
What, was it the wiping Michael's butt comment?:) All kidding aside, I think we all did pretty well keeping our arguments civil. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, I think.
 

paphioland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
11
What, was it the wiping Michael's butt comment?:) All kidding aside, I think we all did pretty well keeping our arguments civil. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, I think.
no nothing to do with anything. Just said everything I could say and even started to say ridiculous stuff. So I am done LOL . Too much time also.
 

NYEric

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
49,044
Reaction score
562
Location
New York City Apartment
I don't think that is true, actually. You can use the plant for breeding any time you want, it doesn't need an award. Heck, a lot of plants that are great studs are unawardable, but contribute something awesome (color, for example) to their offspring.
I didn't say the owner but 'the public'.
 
M

Mrs. Paph

Guest
...Didn't have time to read through All the posts, but in my mind, if you found a treasure of a plant in bloom, bought it b/c you thought it was the best quality you'd seen and awardable, then why the heck not show it right away if you have the chance? Isn't that part of why you bought it - b/c you thought it might be awardable? Just don't go around preening like you thought up the cross, pollinated, prayed for fertilization, flasked and grew out the seedlings! :)
 

Candace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,855
Reaction score
0
Location
Elk Grove, CA
I didn't say the owner but 'the public'.
Eric, I don't know what you mean by this? But when someone shows a plant and it gets awarded(or not) the pollen belongs to the plant owner, not the public. The owner has the right to share, not share or even sell pollen. Just because the plant is awarded does not guarantee it will ever enter the breeding pool.
 

NYEric

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
49,044
Reaction score
562
Location
New York City Apartment
But Candace, per the Australian rules [which you said you agree with], the owner can't even show the plant for 6 months; so, except for personal contacts, the public has no access to how good the plant is or to the pollen.
 

Candace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,855
Reaction score
0
Location
Elk Grove, CA
But Candace, per the Australian rules [which you said you agree with], the owner can't even show the plant for 6 months; so, except for personal contacts, the public has no access to how good the plant is or to the pollen.
Yes, I believe this is the way our award system should work. The public has no access to pollen. It belongs to the owner of the plant. I'm confused by your logic, here. ?? People are very nice on this forum and offer pollen occasionally, but this doesn't always happen for several reasons. I would venture a guestimate that at least 80% of awarded plants are never used for breeding. I'm just pulling this number out of the air, of course. It may be more or less. But, of those I see who have plants awarded, very few are used in breeding and most owners aren't interested in hybridizing.
 
Top