Paph. sanderianum 'Crystelle'

[John M]

John

Lienluu has a PEOY Crystelle FCC. I saw a posting of it on another forum. It didn't look like this plant to me. But maybe its a backcross to a PEOY.

Hi Rick. Well....maybe; but IMO, this is not a backcross. To be absolutely sure, I'd want to see more photos. I wonder if Lienluu has accidentally posted this with the name sanderianum; but, he meant to post it as PEOY....or maybe, sandie x PEOY. I think we've all done that at one time or another when posting from memory. Maybe this is his PEOY 'Crystelle'; perhaps a better blooming than the one he posted on the other forum? I don't feel that it's a backcross to a PEOY because I just don't see this as being 3/4 sanderianum....maybe; but, I don't think so. More photos would be nice.

I see the staminode is half way between sandie and roth. The petals hold themselves like a PEOY. They don't exhibit the severe jutting backwards form that is a defining characteristic of sandie. Most notably is that the petals are wavy, like ribbons. Most people would tell you that pure sanderianum has curly petals and these are definitely not curly. However, "curly" isn't even the correct word to describe sandie petals. They are ruffled. By that I mean, each petal has two flat sides, the front and the back. Each petal has two edges, the left and the right. Paph. sanderianum has petals that have one edge that is remarkably straight....and the other is longer, making it ruffle. Look at a sandie petal sometime. One edge just goes straight down from "shoulder" to tip. The other edge is longer; so, in order to account for the extra length, the edge waves back and forth, giving the entire structure a ruffled effect, not a flowing ribbon effect and not a curly or corkscrew effect. I really think that the flowers in this photo are a PEOY. The colour of this clone is outstanding, as a PEOY; but, it could have flatter petals. The best PEOY clones....or at least the ones grown to perfection, have nice flat petals, at least up closest to the flower. Even though this does not have petals with the very best form, it can still be a PEOY that doesn't have great petal flatness; or, it could be a blooming where, for whatever reason, the petals didn't flatten as much as this clone is capable of doing.

I copied the photos and put them into my photoediting program to brighten them. These photos are easily sufficient to determine at least that this is not pure sandie. While I think it's a PEOY, I have an open mind and would listen to any arguments about it being a different hybrid...just not a pure sandie.

 

[emydura]

I don't feel that it's a backcross to a PEOY because I just don't see this as being 3/4 sanderianum....maybe; but, I don't think so.

Yes, clearly not a sanderianum. If it is a PEOY, then it would have to go down as one of the best ever as few would have petals anywhere near as long as this clone. It is certainly a very sanderianum dominated hybrid.

A backcross of sanderianum to PEOY would see a fair amount of variation. A lot would not look like a 3/4 sanderianum. I wouldn't rule out PEOY x sanderianum. If it was posted as such I would have accepted it. But you cannot be 100% sure it is either.

Good to see you back John.

 

[ehanes7612]

It's a villosum..for sure

 

[John M]

Yes, clearly not a sanderianum. If it is a PEOY, then it would have to go down as one of the best ever as few would have petals anywhere near as long as this clone. It is certainly a very sanderianum dominated hybrid.

A backcross of sanderianum to PEOY would see a fair amount of variation. A lot would not look like a 3/4 sanderianum. I wouldn't rule out PEOY x sanderianum. If it was posted as such I would have accepted it. But you cannot be 100% sure it is either.

Good to see you back John.

I'd have to agree that the petal length does give credit to the idea of it being a backcross to PEOY and not pure PEOY; but, as you say, it could be a REALLY good PEOY....after all, it likely came from Krull-Smith. If there was anyplace I'd expect a really spectacular PEOY to come from, I'd put Krull-Smith at the top of my list. It must've been one of their best to be given the 'Crystelle' clonal name (assuming that lienluu accidentally posted it with the wrong species/grex name). Also, to be honest, if it had been posted as sandie x PEOY, I wouldn't have questioned it, either. I'm only questioning it now because it's clearly not pure sandie and that invites speculation and discussion over what is it's actual identity.

Thanks David. Glad to be posting again.

It's a villosum..for sure.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head! Mystery solved! LOL!

 

[shadytrake]

It's lovely whatever the actual name. Makes me want to try one.

 

[SlipperKing]

Just googled sandies and there isn't a single flowering plant with spots, dots, markings on the petals all the way to the pouch. The petals on this plant are too flat. Needs way more curly-Qs. I can see a time in the future when a sandies dorsal is flatter, wider and more colorful but this ain't the future yet.

 

[slippertalker]

A quick check of OrchidsPlus shows no FCC's to Paph sanderianum and no awarded sanderianums with the name of 'Crystelle' which is from Frank Smith.

 

[MorandiWine]

Might have some canhii in the background....?

But I still suspect that Ehanes is a better guess.

Tyler

 

[Rick]

A quick check of OrchidsPlus shows no FCC's to Paph sanderianum and no awarded sanderianums with the name of 'Crystelle' which is from Frank Smith.

Lienluu's posted name didn't list any awards with the plant in question.

There is a FCC PEOY Crystelle, though (which Lienluu also owns). Subsequently I think he knows what a PEOY is from Frank Smith.

 

[chrismende]

Krull-Smith doesn't mess around! If he names something after his mother, you know it's his best!

 

[chrismende]

But, clearly I spoke to soon before looking closely.... as the rest of you are noting.

 

[NYEric]

Might have some canhii in the background....?
Tyler

:rollhappy:
If you had seen the plants he used to have under the benches in his old greenhouse you would believe that was possible!!!