Orchiata

[limuhead]

Here is what seems to work for me.
Step 1 soak Kiwi Bark over night, drain well and and put in a container to mix.


Step 2 Add dolomite


Step 3 mix thoroughly making sure you have an even coat.


Step 4 Drill 1/4 inch holes in a trash can


Step 5 Fill with media and let sit for a week


Seems to work pretty well, never had any problems and my plants grow like weeds. I think the amount of dolomite depends on how much you water or how much rain you get. Growing in the rain seems to make the ph drop so the more you water/fert the more is needed.

 

[limuhead]

please show pictures.

This is a Formosum Dendrobium hybrid, Thomas Warne x schutzei. Blooms last about 3 or 4 months and for me it blooms 2x a year. It is in a 3.75 net pot and I think there are either 3 or 4 pieces of large decorative bark in it that I 'composted' myself with dolomite.








The roots come out of the bottom, make a U-turn and go right back in the net pot...

 

[SlipperKing]

Why do you put it in a trash can for a week? Does it get rained on?

 

[limuhead]

Why do you put it in a trash can for a week? Does it get rained on?

I am not sure how long it takes the dolomite to penetrate the Kiwi bark. If you have ever used it the bark is extremely hard and dense. I just figured it would help to let it stew for a while. After the first watering a good part of the dolomite rinses out; I use net pots or pots with really good drainage and about 1/3 of my media is coarse perlite so there is no accumulation of excess dolomite.

 

[limuhead]

And yes, it gets rained on quite a bit, so it does get rinsed...

 

[Stone]

Here is what seems to work for me.
Step 1 soak Kiwi Bark over night, drain well and and put in a container to mix.


Step 2 Add dolomite


Step 3 mix thoroughly making sure you have an even coat.


Step 4 Drill 1/4 inch holes in a trash can


Step 5 Fill with media and let sit for a week


Seems to work pretty well, never had any problems and my plants grow like weeds. I think the amount of dolomite depends on how much you water or how much rain you get. Growing in the rain seems to make the ph drop so the more you water/fert the more is needed.

Wow man!! thats a HUUUUUGE amount of dolomite!

 

[Ozpaph]

do you ever test the pH of the run-off early after potting?

 

[limuhead]

do you ever test the pH of the run-off early after potting?

I don't own a ph tester. I do know from experience and from working with/for some large commercial nurseries that too much dolomite is fairly easy to fix. It just takes time. Dolomite overdose just stalls your plants in my experience. I have never lost a plant due to too much dolomite...

 

[keithrs]

I tried the dolomite addition but it turned into a moldy mess. I tried it on pine seedling bark that I soaked in "liquid dolomite" for three days then left it to dry. A week later the pile was a moldy mess!

 

[Ozpaph]

Did you dry it in the sun?

 

[Roth]

I tried the dolomite addition but it turned into a moldy mess. I tried it on pine seedling bark that I soaked in "liquid dolomite" for three days then left it to dry. A week later the pile was a moldy mess!

I am back from New Zealand in fact where I was visiting the Orchiata and the Sphagnum factories...

So far that's why Orchiata is made with Pinus radiata, many types of pine/fir bark do not react well when their pH is increased, and it turns moldy after a while. The more lime, the fastest the decay.

The issue with adding lime on fresh Pinus radiata ( that's what Kiwi bark is in fact, fresh Pinus radiata bark) are first an increase in soluble organic and inorganic salts to start with, then, it will not remove the tannins and terpenes. Whilst it appears some of those compounds may promote orchid growth, many will stunt the growing. If you add a lot of lime and process it like Limuhead is doing, then you can get something acceptable, but first it costs money to add so much lime to start with, second the process cannot be done on a large scale, and it is hard to control the pH afterwards. With the same quantity of lime on fresh bark, some batches will end up with a pH of 7.2, some with pH over 8, some at 6...

That's why we prefer for the Orchiata to remove during the 'aging' as much acids and unwanted organic chemicals, then check the pH of the batch, and apply lime at the end, to end up with a good pH. Adding a lot of lime is fine ( I do sometimes), but with some fertilizers only. Others ( the all nitrate ones are an example) will keep the potting mix at a pH level too high, and deficiencies will appear.

 

[limuhead]

That was 2 bags of Kiwi bark, about 100 liters or just over 3.5 cubic feet, to which I added about 4 pounds of AG 65 dolomite. The dolomite that I get costs about $11.00 for a 50 pound bag. The Kiwi bark costs me $16.00 a bag, Orchiata is a bit more, so this is what I do when Orchiata is not in stock, which is fairly often. I used to buy it by the pallet but for some reason here in Hawaii ants love to set up house in the bags if it sits for more that a few months. If I have a pallet shipped in from the Big Island I can get Orchiata at about $13.50 per bag, but I have to buy 40 at a time. I go through about 20 bags a year and don't have room to store it, so I would rather pay more than have to deal with the ants...

 

[limuhead]

Just out of curiosity Roth, do you think soaking the fresh(Kiwi bark) pinus radiata and dosing it with dolomite for a week going to help with the tannins and whatnot? My orchids don't seem to notice the difference, but I am growing in the rain and Kiwi bark seems to last a bit longer for some reason. Truth be told I would rather use the Orchiata, since I usually end up repotting long before the media breaks down; one of the disadvantages of having good growing conditions that allow rapid growth...

 

[NYEric]

..one of the disadvantages of having good growing conditions that allow rapid growth...

Son of a _ _ _ _ !!

 

[wjs2nd]

Son of a _ _ _ _ !!

Haha, damn Hawaii growers.

I've been using Orchiata for 2 years or so. No problems with great root growth. I use RO water I get from a organic market co-op (the filter is changed every 6 months and k-lite fertizilier.

 

[limuhead]

I have been doing some experimenting, a little 'research' , and by research I mean asking some of the better commercial growers here in Hawaii and of course, reading some of the nutrition posts here on SlipperTalk, I have come to a few conclusions about Orchiata. First and foremost, through personal experience and posts here I think that Orchiata works better with ammonia/urea based fertilizers. I know many of the paph/phrag growers that contribute on this site are having success with K-lite but I am wondering if long term use of K-lite, MSU(or any other nitrate based ferts) on Orchiata may be the reason for root issues because of ph dropping. Second, I find that using the ammonia/urea based ferts are great for rapid vegetative growth and pushing seedlings(>3 inch pots) but without sufficient sunlight too much rapid growth leads to soft plants that are very vulnerable to pests and diseases. Calcium seems to help with these issues and because Orchiata has calcium added it may help to eliminate problems. And last, I am pretty sure that success growing with Orchiata has a lot to do with what is in the water that you use and how long your plants are in the pots. My plants are never in the same media for more than 15 months or so. To my knowledge I do not have issues with salt build up or media breaking down. I prefer not to use fir bark other than large chucky pathway bark because of mold/bacteria, or foul smelling media that over time seems to never dry out. I have not had any issues with Orchiata not drying out and I feel that it is easier to control moisture using it that other barks.

 

[Stone]

I know many of the paph/phrag growers that contribute on this site are having success with K-lite but I am wondering if long term use of K-lite, MSU(or any other nitrate based ferts) on Orchiata may be the reason for root issues because of ph dropping.

Nitrate won't drop pH. If anything it will raise it slowly over time. Ammonium will (especially ammonium sulphate) hense the need for extra lime with those kinds.

 

[limuhead]

I have never had any issues of ph going up to my knowledge. I don't own a ph tester but have in the past used test strips to test the run off out of my pots. Like I stated earlier my plants are never in the same pot for more than 15 months, at the most; more like 8 months as I am rebuilding my collection and most are seedlings. I have a soil ph test kit. If I put pieces of my bark in it will that work? Any suggestions?

 

[Stone]

Yes it will work. I've done that many times and its quite accurate (for our purposes anyway) but your plants are growing that well why bother?

 

[Rick]

but I am wondering if long term use of K-lite, MSU(or any other nitrate based ferts) on Orchiata may be the reason for root issues because of ph dropping.

What's your definition of "long term".

Did you read that paper that Naoki posted?

I'm not using Orchiata, and quit using pH adjusting pot amendments in whatever is still in baskets or pots about a year ago. I even switched back to a lot more use of CHC.

I'm getting better root growth in CHC based mixes than I used to ever get at high feed rates with MSU, and some of these new test conditions are over a year now.