Phal. Bronze Maiden- discussion about breeding

[Ndove]

Hi all- I just purchased one of Norman’s Orchids Phal. Bronze Maidens (Norman’s-I know, I know).

( Bronze Maiden is Phal schilleriana x Phal mannii. )

But it was the ONLY vendor I could find one from, there were a few recently listed on Etsy but honestly Norman’s were seed grown and looked better so I went with Norman’s. Anyway the plant is large, mature.. its roots are Okay… I repotted it immediately as it was in broken down small pot of moss.

I was doing some research on this grex and I’ve found no breedings using Bronze Maiden.

Is this cross infertile? Does anyone know? Just out of curiosity since I love the cross so much.. don’t wanna waste my time breeding it though if it’s known to not be fertile. I’m guessing that it could be triploid?

I’ll share some pictures of it. Last picture is a comparison of its glossy silver leaves next to a species Phal amboinensis ‘Wilson’ with regular green leaves!

 

[Ndove]

Anyone??

 

[big923cattleya]

Bronze Maiden is an older hybrid. I think it was registered in 1964 so it was a while ago.

I think that not every cross produces worthwhile breed able plants. Sometimes crosses are made with goals in mind. Sometimes not. I have been around orchids for quite some time and I have to say that from the images I found on line, the results are disappointing. Not ugly. I feel that there is no such thing as an ugly orchid. But here some one took Phalaenopsis mannii and crossed it with Phalaenopsis schilleriana. Mannii is a cute species producing rather star shaped flowers. Colors are often pinkish. Phalaenopsis schilleriana has beautiful tessellated foliage, longish branched inflorescences with 2” pink flowers.

I have not grown this hybrid so direct experience is lacking. BUT from what I see on line shows me flowers shaped like mannii. Inflorescences do not seem to branch. So to put it bluntly, I do not see any improvement. The hybrid produced does not measure up to either parent.
So the next logical question for some one trying to breed with Bronze Maiden, what would be the goal?? What would one hope to achieve? The pretty tessellations of schilleriana leaves are gone. The flower count of schilleriana is greatly reduced. The flowers do not really compare favorably with mannii either.
So maybe no one saw any reason to breed Bronze Maiden any further.

 

[Tony]

Phalaenopsis Bronze Maiden is a synonym, the original and valid registered name is Phalaenopsis Schillmann. It has one registered descendent, Phalaenopsis Bronze Beauty which is a cross to the complex pink Phalaenopsis Zada. For whatever reason the RHS has not updated the registration of Bronze Beauty to reflect Schillmann being the accepted name. I'm inclined to agree with Big's thoughts on why that line was never developed much further.

 

[big923cattleya]

Well that was one attempt at using it as a parent. Whoever tried that cross Bronze Maiden x Zada at least made an attempt to try something. Zada was used countless times back then to mostly produce larger flowered pinks.
But I might be wrong. The driving factor may have been Phal. Zada. What can I use with Zada to produce a better hybrid? They might have tried to produce a better branching pink flowered hybrid.

 

[big923cattleya]

I remembered to look into the AOS database for Bronze Maiden. It did find one award, a JC, for a new and unusual line of breeding. That was in 1974 in south Texas. There are no measurements given. It had 51 flowers, star shaped on one inflorescence and 8 flowers with 3 buds on the other. Flowers were pinkish overlaid or flushed lavender with fine spotting on a branched inflorescence.
They show only one cross made like we said with Bronze Maiden. Bronze Maiden x Zada which makes Bronze Beauty. No awards were ever granted to Bronze Beauty.