Funky villosum foliage - virus?

[The Mutant]

So, what's up with my baby villosum?

It has been getting these kind of really strangely coloured leaves ever since I got it home about 2½ years ago:

My theories have ranged from, virus, nutrient deficiency, light issue, to variegation.

It has been growing right next to my other Paphs from the Paphiopedilum subgenus, getting the same treatment, culture, fertilizer, you name it, and none of the other have ever shown any signs of similar issues.

It's a good grower and seems healthy and happy if it wasn't for the strange looking foliage...

 

[Ozpaph]

yikes. ? virus

 

[The Mutant]

Noooo! Don't say that!

Edit:

Maybe I should elaborate a bit; there's no pitting, no cell collapse, no deformations etc; just the lack of green colour. The leaves also green up after a while, which is why the older ones are greener, but they never go fully green.

 

[Justin]

could be, could also just be variegation.

are the virus test kits available there? here in the US there are labs that will test a leaf sample for $5 USD. that is the only way to know.

 

[SlipperFan]

On the new leaves or just the old ones? Could be culture.

 

[Stone]

I have seen this on a couple of my sanderianum seedlings (or something similar to it). Some of the leaf tip is completely chlorotic - pure white! It seems to grow out after a while. Don't think it's a virus though because it is too concentrated on the edges???
Let us know what happens with this one!

 

[Trithor]

I would also be worried about that

 

[SlipperKing]

Have you ever repotted it into anything else? Paph villosum is epiphytic and not like the others you mentioned. I think its culture problem and/or genetic. With orchid seed germination you can "save" sports that would most likely parish in the wild. When I did my own flasking I could get plants like this, sports. Usually didn't keep them around.

 

[The Mutant]

Thank you for your suggestions/opinions, people. I knew i could count on you.

Some more pictures of my little villosum (the shiny spots are from the pesticide):

Here you can see that the older leaves turn greener after a while, but never fully green:

Second newest leaf on the oldest growth:

Newest leaf on the oldest growth:

This is the plant when I got it home (it's still in the same pot), it was planted in pure bark, and I let it stay in that for about a year before I repotted it into my preferred mix of bark, perlite, and sphagnum. It got these chlorotic leaves when planted in pure bark, and in my mix, so I don't think it's the substrate:

could be, could also just be variegation.

are the virus test kits available there? here in the US there are labs that will test a leaf sample for $5 USD. that is the only way to know.

I've managed to find two places that sell virus test kits; Agdia - Biofords (this is Agdia's distributor in Europe I think), and Biosense Laboratories, which sells Pocket Diagnostics.

On the new leaves or just the old ones? Could be culture.

All leaves. They start out almost without any pigmentation, and then they turn more and more green as they grow/age.

I have seen this on a couple of my sanderianum seedlings (or something similar to it). Some of the leaf tip is completely chlorotic - pure white! It seems to grow out after a while. Don't think it's a virus though because it is too concentrated on the edges???
Let us know what happens with this one!

As you can see, it's very focused around the edges on the leaves. To me, it looks like some sort of failed variegation attempt. I'm going to give it a bit more light and see how it reacts to that.

I would also be worried about that

The funny part is; I haven't been that worried about it. Perplexed and cautious (because you never know when plants look weird what it could be), but not really worried. Maybe I'm just too used to seeing it, because it doesn't bother me as much as it should. I just don't think it looks unhealthy, weird and not particularly pretty, yes, but not sick.

Have you ever repotted it into anything else? Paph villosum is epiphytic and not like the others you mentioned. I think its culture problem and/or genetic. With orchid seed germination you can "save" sports that would most likely parish in the wild. When I did my own flasking I could get plants like this, sports. Usually didn't keep them around.

I let it stay in the substrate it came in, pure bark, for about a year before repotting it into bark, perlite, and sphagnum. It got chlorotic leaves in both substrates.

Here's a picture of another villsoum I had, (bought it as a henryanum, so I was quite surprised when the hairy bud appeared), together with its buddy, helenae:

I had this villsoum for about a year, standing right next to my weird one, potted in the same substrate (my mix), and treated exactly the same way. I don't think it's a cultural issue...

 

[Alex]

Maybe a different point of view, but it's a villosum so easily replaceable - why not just dump it and save yourself the worry (and the cost of a virus testing kit)?

 

[The Mutant]

Maybe a different point of view, but it's a villosum so easily replaceable - why not just dump it and save yourself the worry (and the cost of a virus testing kit)?

Because I wouldn't get a new villosum. I'm not really that interested in villosum as a species, but this was a freebie so I thought it would be interesting to see what the flowers looked like. And I have a really hard time pitching anything that appears healthy, despite the foliage. :/


EDIT: I've decided for the sake of future web browsers of possible virus infections on Paphs, to get myself a virus test-kit. I'll contact Agdia tomorrow, and then we'll take it from there.

 

[gonewild]

I'm going to say not virus. Because there is a solid white border on the leaf I'm thinking a form of variegation.

 

[Ruth]

I'm going to say not virus. Because there is a solid white border on the leaf I'm thinking a form of variegation.

I agree, I just received a helenae from OL and it has a tiny white border. All orchids are a little different and grow different per area. I would be surprised if it is a virus.

 

[Ozpaph]

Because I wouldn't get a new villosum. I'm not really that interested in villosum as a species, but this was a freebie so I thought it would be interesting to see what the flowers looked like. And I have a really hard time pitching anything that appears healthy, despite the foliage. :/


EDIT: I've decided for the sake of future web browsers of possible virus infections on Paphs, to get myself a virus test-kit. I'll contact Agdia tomorrow, and then we'll take it from there.

It's not 'free' if its virused and infects other plants.
Personally, Id burn it and buy another one. IMHO not worth the risk even if it tests negative to the few viruses you test for.
Looking forward to the test results. (what viruses infect paphs anyway?)

 

[Trithor]

It's not 'free' if its virused and infects other plants.
Personally, Id burn it and buy another one. IMHO not worth the risk even if it tests negative to the few viruses you test for.
Looking forward to the test results. (what viruses infect paphs anyway?)

My feeling as well. If it was a scarce plant my action may be different, but variegated or virused, not worth the risk in my opinion.

 

[The Mutant]

Ugh... It looks like Agdia might not sell test kits to hobby growers, but only to companies, nurseries etc.

I've asked them anyway.

Leaning more and more towards the bin for Mr. villsoum now (although it feels a bit like closing the door after the horse has bolted, considering I've had it for so long already).

I'll have to keep an eye on my gratrixianum now too, since this is the one that has been standing closest to the villosum.

My feeling as well. If it was a scarce plant my action may be different, but variegated or virused, not worth the risk in my opinion.

I don't know if it's scarce. It says "new type from China" on the tag, which was why I kept it in the first place.


EDIT:
I just tossed it. Got a migraine from the anxiety and felt that it wasn't worth it. If it was virused, the probability of my entire collection being infected is high, despite keeping things sterile, since I've had false spider mites. Oh, well. Too late now.

 

[Ozpaph]

I think you made the right call.
Buy some more in spring - paph shopping always makes me feel better.

 

[The Mutant]

I think you made the right call.
Buy some more in spring - paph shopping always makes me feel better.

It feels better for my mental health if nothing else.

I don't think I can get any more Paphs, since I have to get rid of some Phals in order to do so. I had planned to sell some, but with possible virus around, I don't know if I dare. Two Phals were tossed as well, by the way. I was already suspicious of them, and looking at all those pictures of virused Phals, put the proverbial nail in their coffin.

 

[Trithor]

Yay Mutant! Way to go, decisive action! Now you can pour a glass of good wine and chill, spring is not too far away and now you have a legitimate reason to buy a new plant (and an extra one to reward yourself for positive and decisive action)

 

[The Mutant]

Yay Mutant! Way to go, decisive action! Now you can pour a glass of good wine and chill, spring is not too far away and now you have a legitimate reason to buy a new plant (and an extra one to reward yourself for positive and decisive action)

I did pour myself a nice a cup of tea instead, but I feel much more relaxed now.

I will see if I can get some virus test strips and test the Paphs that were the closest to it, just to be on the safe side.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lesson learned this time; throw away any funky looking orchid, no matter how healthy it seems, right away to save yourself from future stress!

Do you ever stop learning while growing orchids? I don't think it's possible...