Disillusioned by AOS judging

[Happypaphy7]

Awards have no value to me.
I like what I like. Headache free!

 

[troy]

I agree!!!

 

[abax]

Don't be discouraged Cambria. The AOS judging system and a good many of the venues for judging are already
decided by who's who. A friend in CA was in a manner
black balled for having won too many awards no matter
how great his plants are. You'd probably recognize the
name if I used it here.

 

[John M]

the same judge said my shun fa golden x roth was misslabeled there was no hangianum in it. Sssooooo...

Photo please.

 

[troy]

Tapatalk will not open the picture aarrgghhh, it's in archives here on st

 

[Tom-DE]

I have no problem with what the judge said in this case. If you feed your plants regularly, they normally will produce nicer bloom and most experienced growers will agree that.... MSU fertilizer is just her/his suggestion. That's all.

Politics do exist in AOS or RHS judging from time to time, however, based on your photo, the judge's opinion on your Bulbo. is right IMO.
Just keep it in mind, you might think the flower is fantastic, out of this world.... but in judge's eyes, it could be completely different.... Good luck next time.

 

[Tom-DE]

Sorry, but I completely disagree..telling someone to give more fertilizer without understanding the amounts they already give or/and impressing upon them the basic fundamental property of gardening in any form..balance of nutrients , watering , soil properties, etc etc etc. There is absolutely no way to understand what is the limiting element from such a superficial conversation. I can't tell you how many times I have heard from novice orchid growers say they have gotten this advice about fertilizing and ended up killing their plants. It's a counter productive way of giving advice and very irresponsible

The judge just pointed out the importance of nutrients and let her down gently in this case, nothing more... you can write hundreds of books about fertilizers and its related subjects....and it will still not have enough details, same thing goes to watering and light... I agree people should adjust fertilizers, watering and air movement accordingly....but that is not the point here....Further more, the judge is not here to teach her how to grow orchids in details. He/she just simple made a suggest(in general)...End of the story!

 

[ehanes7612]

The judge just pointed out the importance of nutrients and let her down gently in this case, nothing more... you can write hundreds of books about fertilizers and its related subjects....and it will still not have enough details, same thing goes to watering and light... I agree people should adjust fertilizers, watering and air movement accordingly....but that is not the point here....Further more, the judge is not here to teach you how to grow orchids in details. He/she just simple made a suggest(in general)...End of the story!

NO, not the end of the story..well, it would have been but you didn't seem to be content with me deleting my comment
I call it 'patronizing' ... a judge is a position of authority in this case and since I have seen judges and others give more responsible answers, I am going to call them out on it and raise the standard for giving such responses. Given that they have had at least 11 years of experience to get to this point, they should know better. Ironic how the judge has high standards for flower quality but cant seem to correlate that with advice on growing, and like the OP said..it was suspicious...that's BULLSHIT!!!..got it??

 

[Tom-DE]

NO, not the end of the story..
I call it 'patronizing' ... a judge is a position of authority in this case and since I have seen judges and others give more responsible answers, I am going to call them out on it and raise the standard for giving such responses. Given that they have had at least 11 years of experience to get to this point, they should know better.

You are full of ****! Kido, you are still a grasshopper in this field....step aside and wait on the line.
and don't change or delete your post!

 

[ehanes7612]

You are full of ****! Kido, you are still a grasshopper in this field....step aside and wait on the line.
and don't change or delete your post!

I see you really can't hang wth me..I guess you are folding now?

 

[ehanes7612]

right on

 

[Tom-DE]

Well, what else do you want me to say? Besides that, I have no time for an idiot!

 

[ehanes7612]

Well, what else do you want me to say? Besides that, I have no time for an idiot!

Apparently you do

 

[Ozpaph]

I can also mention that the judge told me that he helped develop the MSU formula and they sell so many hundreds of pounds of it a year. He told me that I could really push those bulbophyllum further with more fertilizer. So honestly, as he rested his hand on my shoulder, I felt like I was being hassled to buy his product.

And yes, this happened in front of everyone present at the judging center.

That sounds condescending and inappropriate.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Yep, sounds like a sales pitch to me, not so good one at that, too! lol

 

[h_mossy]

Orchid awards mostly has to do with who is friends with who, totally political, I've had the run down from multiple well known good vendors, I realize unless I have a hangianum, godefroyae or adductum that has more than 3 flowers on 1 inflourescence, it wouldn't even be looked at

Years ago a friend overheard two judges at a show here in Hawaii, one judging that particular show, and one who was merely visiting the show. The one just visiting told his buddy to "not award so-and-so's plant, because he wanted to try to buy it later". My friend would never tell me who those judges were, but after that I could see that the habit of scratching each other's backs does occur.

 

[h_mossy]

Don't be discouraged Cambria. The AOS judging system and a good many of the venues for judging are already
decided by who's who. A friend in CA was in a manner
black balled for having won too many awards no matter
how great his plants are. You'd probably recognize the
name if I used it here.

It should be based solely on the quality of the plant, and not on who owns it, or how many awards that owner has received. Maybe that particular owner merely has superior genetic stock. I'd give them the award if the plant merits it. If it is awarded, then that is good for the orchid world in general in that that plant will have progeny that will benefit the rest of us one way or another. It would be better to not know who owns what until after the awards are given out.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I wish your friend would have outed these two guys.
They shouldn't be judging. But then, no matter what, these people will always be around. The reality.

I love going to my local shows and enjoy the displays. And of course, buying plants is a big part of the fun.
I just have no interest in judging and awards that much.
Life is always full of bs, and one doesn't need to look for more is my policy. lol

 

[AdamD]

It would be better to not know who owns what until after the awards are given out.

That’s the way it’s supposed to go down.

So, if this is the judging center I think it is, I’ve been told the same before. They looked at it, but passed because of the flower count, but did say bring it back next blooming

 

[naoki]

Yes. As I read this thread, I was waiting to hit a post that mentioned that fact. As a blanket statement, "more fertilizer = bigger flowers" is total, misguiding crap. If anything, just piling on more feed will reduce the size, quality and number of flowers.

I agree with Ray and John, it is unlikely that fertilization influences the flower size.

Wang has done this experiment with Phalaenopsis. Fertilization (or media type, which influences the availability) did NOT influence the flower size. However, fertilization influences the vegetative aspects as well as the number flowers produced (also in Dendrobium).

Wang, Y.T. and Gregg, L.L., 1994. Medium and fertilizer affect the performance of Phalaenopsis orchids during two flowering cycles. HortScience, 29(4), pp.269-271.

This doesn't have flower size data, but it has flower numbers.
Wang, Y.T., 1995. Medium and fertilization affect performance of potted Dendrobium and Phalaenopsis. HortTechnology, 5(3), pp.234-237.

We shouldn't make a blanket statement based on a couple examples. But if you think about the function of flowers, it is logical that plants don't increase the flower size based on the nutritional level. For example, does the size of a single flower influence the pollinator attraction? With Phalaenopsis (or plants with multiple flowers per inflorescence), it is likely that producing one extra flower to increase the overall display size is more likely to be successful than increasing the size of each flower by 5%. Also, other attractant like scent (in case of Bulbophyllum) is more important than flower size. So if there is some excess resources, they don't gain much from increasing the flower size. Additionally, if you change the flower size (especially around the column), the pollination success will reduce because the pollinia can be deposited to the wrong part of the insect. One may say that plants can change the petal and sepal sizes independent from column and lip. But in many plants, there are strong genetic correlations between the sizes of different parts.

I guess artificial judging for artificial hybrids are ok, but I don't see any points in the current judging of pure species (except for the merits attached to the growers such as CCE).