You be the judge

[big923cattleya]

Why would you admit to that?
I would wonder about your reasoning and what drives you. Why do you say the things you say. But, you removed all doubt but admitting it.

 

[Tony]

Why would you admit to that?
I would wonder about your reasoning and what drives you. Why do you say the things you say. But, you removed all doubt but admitting it.

Who are you even talking to? I thought you were taking your money and leaving.

 

[big923cattleya]

At the end of my current support, I am.

 

[tnyr5]

If all goes well I'll be taking it back this summer with two spikes.

It's also worth noting: the other judges could have called the bluff and submitted a bunch of 81s and 82s. 74 isn't what I would call "ridiculously low," because at 74, you can be 6 points below everyone else and the plant could still get an AM. Much as I might hate to admit it to myself, if someone scored my plant 74, I would have to at least entertain the idea that the 74 might be correct and the other scores too generous.

Bill Wilson at the Philly center used to famously score zero as a way of pink-slipping a plant out of an award. That was before the no-lowballing rule and was blatantly, obviously unfair, as it allowed one judge to have absolute power over the group. I'm pretty sure it's the reason the rule was created lol.

I personally never exhibit multifloral Paphs with less than 5 flowers, and I do my best to stake them to perfection. Doing both of those things almost guarantees an award.

 

[tnyr5]

As people are just using the same stances back and forth and are apparently not willing to accept the other views, I'm considering stopping responses to this thread.

Any support or objection to that? I mean that seriously - y'all haven't quite gotten to the "Jane, you ignorant ****" stage, and it still might.

I vote to let it continue for now. It's heated, but not completely uncivil, and underneath it all there's some good discussion going on.

 

[Ray]

Back when I used to travel a lot on business, I’d occasionally visit judging centers in the area. One of the issues I noted was simply one of exposure - the judges in “Minnesota” (fictitious example for demonstration purposes) that didn’t see a lot of vandas were more “flexible” about awarding them than would be judges in Miami.

The discussion that followed was reasonable, so I see no reason to lock it.

I am disappointed in the “take my ball and go home” attitude of Big Catt, though.

 

[Tony]

I'm confused as to what horrible thing I admitted lol

 

[tnyr5]

Eh, give him time. Maybe he's having a bad day. Lord knows I've done my fair share of grumpy posting on here.

 

[big923cattleya]

You admitted to “heckling judges because it’s fun”.

 

[Tony]

You admitted to “heckling judges because it’s fun”.

I'm going to need you to quote me there chief.

 

[big923cattleya]

It was not you Tony.
Just scroll back up. tnyr5 included that line in a post made at 2:14pm this afternoon.
If I offended you Tony, I sincerely apologize.

 

[Paph Paradise]

Most of my breeding is not done with AOS awards in mind. The first priority is bright colors that will be attractive to buyers, especially at shows. Color sells. Awards are a by-product of using some exceptional material that I obtained over the years and selective breeding. Being an AOS judge I am naturally going to choose the flowers with 'fatter' petals, but given a choice between siblings with full segments or great color and exceptional vigor I will take the latter on the stud bench. So color is priority 1 and vigor would be 1A. If the plants don't grow well nobody will want them.
One example is Paphiopedilum Dot's Spots (example below). The flowers have been nothing short of incredible from an AOS judging standpoint, but they are terribly slow growing. I have made a couple crosses with them as there is clearly a market for these among 'award hounds', but I can't tie up bench space with sluggish growing crosses. The lack of vigor comes from Paph Dot's Delight, an OZ hybrid. I only ever saw 5 of them there and I bough all of them. All died. They obviously didn't grow well for Terry either. These will require some long term vision in breeding...probably back to a species or primary for vigor then a couple generations of selective breeding to tease out the good stuff. This would be a line pursued with judging in mind.
My roths will be very likely to get many awards. That is the inevitable result of breeding 'the best with the best', especially with species. One thing Terry told me at OZ was that when you cross two really good species together you will always get even better ones as a result.

As for obstinate judges who won't budge off a low score to kill an award, if they can't provide a valid argument to back up their point they should recuse themselves. If this occurs in my home judging center I will call them out for it. It is embarrassing to the judging center and the AOS when that happens. It really doesn't happen much at our center as we all get along and we are doing this because we have fun.

Dave

 

[tomp]

At the end of my current support, I am.

Consider reconsidering.
You post a lot of valuable/practical information which is helpful to many.
The baby and bath water maxim comes to mind.

 

[big923cattleya]

Great point! Great point tomp.
I promise to give it some thought. I guess I could utilize the “ignore” option.

I am having some success with Zygopetalums under lights. Maybe that info. needs to be shared?

 

[Ross]

Great points, David!

 

[Tom-DE]

Bill, you will be missed if you leave for sure...but threatening or the "ignore" tactic, neither of them will work and it is childish IMO.

@ all/in general--This is a public forum, and not everybody will agree with anything you say(right or wrong). If we always can agree with each other, that would be nice but it is a dream!... If you can't handle the heat, don't dish out your thoughts/controversial topics. Knowing when to stop is another smart move because you are not really winning anything no matter what, even if you think you are winning. Just saying.

 

[Ray]

Well said, Tom.

 

[Duck Slipper]

I don't think anyone, should take anything personal, off of a forum posting...
Tom, this thread has certainly evolved from its original intent, but, a good read nonetheless!

From my vantage point, I never have entered a plant for judging, mostly because of the difficulty and drive time.
Secondly, overall lack of knowledge in the process. Presentation of the plant (staking was mentioned earlier) and just having doubts about a plant being awardable. But, on this forum, there is a very diverse group of hobbyists, professional and otherwise that offer opinions and knowledge that I thirstily absorb and enjoy!

 

[Tony]

I don't think anyone, should take anything personal, off of a forum posting...
Tom, this thread has certainly evolved from its original intent, but, a good read nonetheless!

From my vantage point, I never have entered a plant for judging, mostly because of the difficulty and drive time.
Secondly, overall lack of knowledge in the process. Presentation of the plant (staking was mentioned earlier) and just having doubts about a plant being awardable. But, on this forum, there is a very diverse group of hobbyists, professional and otherwise that offer opinions and knowledge that I thirstily absorb and enjoy!

I've seen you post some great plants, your specimen St Swithin in particular deserves to be shown if you get the chance.

 

[big923cattleya]

I can understand why you might think what I threatened or said is childish. I understand.
But I look at it as being said by me out of frustration. It might boil down to a difference of opinion.

All I initially thought was to post an image of two flowers. Did people think they were awardable, yes or no? That’s it.
I never dreamt we would go down the road leading to a pro and con discussion about the worth and value of the AOS Judging System.