cites appendix 1

[cnycharles]

I'm thinking about importing some flasks, from thailand and one or two of the flasks might be paph species. Does anyone in the u.s. know what paperwork I need to have from the usda (cites permits), or do I just have to pay the importer for cites documentation from his end? I have an import permit and I know that I/the importer will have to have phyto certificates; I just need to know if I need to get a specific cites permit from the u.s. to allow importation of appendix one species?

thanks
charles

 

[gonewild]

If they are artificially propagated and transported in-vitro they are CITES exempt. If something is exempt from CITES you don't need a CITES permit.
But they must arrive in the sterile media containers not removed from the flasks.

 

[cnycharles]

so I will just need phyto certificates from the importer, that reads 'nursery raised' on the certificate? ... and so I would only need cites paperwork if I were trying to import plants out of flask? in that case (importing plants not flasks), would I need to get a cites import permit or just pay the importer to do cites paperwork?

thanks,
charles

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

So why can't we be getting in vitro flasks of hangianum, tranlienianum, etc getting imported legally?

 

[likespaphs]

So why can't we be getting in vitro flasks of hangianum, tranlienianum, etc getting imported legally?

i think it's something about the u.s. requiring something stating that seven generations were legally collected/raised

but i could be very wrong

 

[NYEric]

so I will just need phyto certificates from the importer, that reads 'nursery raised' on the certificate? ... and so I would only need cites paperwork if I were trying to import plants out of flask? in that case (importing plants not flasks), would I need to get a cites import permit or just pay the importer to do cites paperwork?

thanks,
charles

You mean "that reads artificially propogated" right?!

 

[cnycharles]

something like that. my memory escapes me

someone out of country said that a usda person told them that as long as they had that 'art prop' on label and they weren't from vietnam, they should be okay. this person was going to try sending a flask to the u.s. to test that statement to see if it really did make it or not (whatever paph species he was going to try)

 

[Dido]

Normaly to be sure I would call customs.

So I made it years ago when I imported soemthing to germany.

Or is this not possible in US. They can tell you normaly exactly what they want, and let it be send to you in writen form, so you are save when soemthing happen.

 

[TyroneGenade]

I think you have to draw a pentagram on the floor in chalk on a moonless night and then dance naked around it while filling in the forms. Be careful when dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

 

[s1214215]

Hi all.. Not sure, but I may be the exporter haha..

I am just as concerned. I have not exported paphs to the USA before and this a huge thing to me as I dont like to send and see them not arrive.

However, that said. I just called USDA. I talked to a lovely lady there Gail Jennings. She said that Paphs are not restricted if in flask (except Vietnam Species). She told me to make sure it says nursery propagated stock on the phyto (I already do that for paphs to other countries). I called them on this number and asked for her and they put me through - 877-770-5990

I am thinking I will do a test flask and see how it goes. Then I can post here.

I just succeeded in sending Thaianum to Japan. I will send a second flask this week to be double sure. Japan is just about as tough as the USA on Paphs.

Now if I can get that to the USA that way, I am chuffed.

Brett

 

[Bob in Albany N.Y.]

Brett, Please do try one flask and see what happens. Many of us here would be interested in paph. flasks if they are of good quality. What country are you shipping from?

 

[NYEric]

I'm still interested and maybe charles will split with me.

 

[gonewild]

Caution!
Doing a test flask and seeing if it gets through will in no way confirm that you have complied with the law. It would only mean that the border inspector passed it through. It also would not mean that F&W did not let it through and plans to watch where it goes and perhaps a bigger illegal shipment will follow.

If you are not sure about CITES, don't play with CITES.
The law is very clear and easy to read.

This is what it says about paphs...

"seedlings or tissue cultures obtained in vitro, in solid or liquid media, and transported in sterile containers are not subject to the provisions of the Convention only if the specimens meet the definition of 'artificially propagated' agreed by the Conference of the Parties)

Now you must define 'artificially propagated'.
"Nursery raised" is NOT correct.

 

[gonewild]

Go to this page to learn what is considered as 'artificially propagated' for CITES.

http://www.cites.org/eng/res/11/11-11R13.shtml


Be aware that you may also be subject to filing Lacey Act documents depending on various conditions.

Under the Lacey Act species from Vietnam would be considered as "illegal" because they have never been obtained from a legal source.

 

[s1214215]

Hi Lance

I actually called CITES in the USA and they said it was ok for Paph thaianum in flask. Two people at USDA have given a verbal ok. What is F&W? I really want to make sure I am doing the right thing before I go ahead sending.

I will have a read of the link you added. Thanks Lance.

Do I need to send this flask with a CITES document to say at my end it is propagated? I know the CITES people here in Bangkok well enough. A flask of thaianum I just sent to Japan was visually inspected here and OKed by one of CITES Bangkok's chief officers to go. When I asked if I needed a cert from CITES to send to the USA, they said no. You only need a phyto cert that states "artificially propagated" on it. Which is what happened on the cert that went with the flask.

To be honest if I could just get the right people in the USA to give me the info that would be great. So far I have talked to USDA (plant imports) and CITES, but giving the green light to go. If I need to get the OK from anyone else, who would that be?

Brett

 

[John M]

.....And WHY(!) to they need the phyto certificate that is issued for flasks to state "artificially propagated"? Don't they know that orchid seedlings in flask do not occur naturally in-situ? Duh! Bureaucrats that can't tell their butt from their head make me sick.

 

[s1214215]

.....And WHY(!) to they need the phyto certificate that is issued for flasks to state "artificially propagated"? Don't they know that orchid seedlings in flask do not occur naturally in-situ? Duh! Bureaucrats that can't tell their butt from their head make me sick.

Agreed John. I also fail to see why we apply CITES to plants as well as it fails in many areas. Even CITES people I know acknowlege it completely fails to protect wild plant stocks in various places and inhibits the trade of legally propagated plants.

Anyway, rules are rules, and I just want to abide by them so that I can get Paph flasks to the USA.

One thing. I was told Vietnamese Paphs are a no go, even in flask.

Brett

 

[cnycharles]

one other thing; for our recent aussie terrestrial order, the tubers were shipped using the australian national postal service to our u.s. postal service, and there was a need for those yellow and green stickers to be placed on the box so that the plants would go to the proper inspection station and then to the u.s. postal service. for flasks, do we need to use these colored stickers as well or what is the process for flasks to be inspected and shipped? if the carrier used from thailand is not a national postal service and is more like ups or fedex, what is the process needed to get these flasks from there to here? I had imported phals from australia to the u.s. a while back, but don't remember those details
thanks

 

[s1214215]

I have always made my own in bright green, with bold print saying "URGENT APHIS INSPECTION REQUIRED - LIVE TISSUE CULTURE. This always worked in the past.

Mind you, there have been a few hiccups, but normally that was when a box simply was not scanned by USPS. The good thing with EMS mail shipping is I can track the item. Some of the USDA people know me well enough now over the phone as a result. probably give them nightmares from the few times things went astray or were delayed. I watch my shipments every step of the way, as I have learnt not to completely trust the system.

 

[Paphman910]

Hi Lance

I actually called CITES in the USA and they said it was ok for Paph thaianum in flask. Two people at USDA have given a verbal ok. What is F&W?
Brett

US Fishery and Wildlife Services

Paphman910