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Cool. Must be an orchid tree!
Wild Orchids - Roots and Nutrition
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Rick
Well-Known Member
You might also compare these values to Table 2 in my AOS article for leaf litter concentrations in Sumatra
In general the lichen concentrations are about 1/2 those in Sumatran leaf litter. For instance the K concentration is 2,470 mg/Kg (ppm) in the leaf litter
The inorganic consituents in Sumatran leaf litter also comprise only 4.5% of the total mass of litter. The rest is all organics.
So a gram of leaf litter in a litter of water will yield a max of 2.47 mg of K (completely digested), but can yield 95.5 mg of various organic materials with the same assumption of dissolution.
But we also know you don't get 100% instant solubility of leaf litter material, so its slow release.
I'm thinking the leaf litter may be lower in nutrients than the leaves and canopy above. Once the litter is on the forest floor many of the nutrients may have already been consumed or leached out. I'm talking about dense forest environments where there are epiphyte populations above in the trees.
Here is an interesting paper on lichen content.
Still regardless whether leaf litter or active chemicals in the canopy provide the nutrients for orchids the levels are much lower than what we fertilize with.
Not only do wild orchids have their roots in association with lichens most plants have lichens growing on their leaves.
How many people have lichens growing on their orchid plants?
Perhaps a key towards a better orchid growing environment is one that grows lichens.
Rick, you have referenced the lady that had old plants growing and has never fertilized them, do you know if her plants have lichen growing in association?
This Buletin has some interesting info on the role lichens play in plant nutrietion
Ten Things You Should Know About Lichens
"Because of their association with cyanobacteria, lichens can provide themselves with nitrogen compounds. Lichens contribute to the nitrogen cycle by converting the nitrogen in the air into nitrates that contribute to their growth and development. Their ability to �fix� atmospheric nitrogen is beneficial to other plant life as well. When it rains, nitrogen is leached from both living and dead lichens and is available to plant life in the immediate areas. When lichens die, they contribute decayed organic matter to the area they inhabited, which enables mosses and seeds from vascular plants to begin developing among the pockets of new soil."
Ten Things You Should Know About Lichens
"Because of their association with cyanobacteria, lichens can provide themselves with nitrogen compounds. Lichens contribute to the nitrogen cycle by converting the nitrogen in the air into nitrates that contribute to their growth and development. Their ability to �fix� atmospheric nitrogen is beneficial to other plant life as well. When it rains, nitrogen is leached from both living and dead lichens and is available to plant life in the immediate areas. When lichens die, they contribute decayed organic matter to the area they inhabited, which enables mosses and seeds from vascular plants to begin developing among the pockets of new soil."
Here is another measurement.
This small orchid species was removed from a limb complete with it's entire root system. The roots and orchid was surrounded by localized moss and small lichens.
The plant was hung and allowed to completely dry with out any water contacting it for several weeks.
The entire plant sample was soaked in water for 2 hours.
To start the clean water tested 12ppm and pH6.4
After the soaking the water tested 41ppm and pH6.7
This small orchid species was removed from a limb complete with it's entire root system. The roots and orchid was surrounded by localized moss and small lichens.
The plant was hung and allowed to completely dry with out any water contacting it for several weeks.
The entire plant sample was soaked in water for 2 hours.
To start the clean water tested 12ppm and pH6.4
After the soaking the water tested 41ppm and pH6.7
Rick
Well-Known Member
No lichens but plenty of mosses which often from associations with BG algae (synonymous with cyanobacteria) just like the lichens (but not internalized). Not all lichens species have N fixing capabilities too. I read another paper on lichen contributions to N in epiphytic communities in temperate forests. N fixers do leak organo N compounds while other species consume N and don't contribute until they die and decompose.
There's no shortage of mosses at the little old ladies place, but no obvious lichen activity.
I wonder why no lichens? Lichens seem to grow everywhere in Nature so why not in/on orchid collections?
Rick
Well-Known Member
Well maybe we don't know how to identify them. In your picture above I see a lot of what looks like moss with encrusting BG algae (no obvious lichen to me).
With enough humidity you can have dry piles of cyanobacteria with no fungal association.
Maybe my idea of lichens is too narrow?? In that paper on lichen contribution in temperate forests, the contribution to biomass and nutrient flux was less than 10% (significant but not the majority by any means).
The lichens in the photo don't show well when they are wet. But if you look on the lower leaves you see the whitish patches are lichen and also one at the tip of my thumb. Also the plant has a large area of lichen growing on the back side, and some of the roots are covered with tiny lichen. I have pictures taken while it was still in flower I'll post later.
Here is a picture of the plant in the last post showing the Lichens it grows with.
Rick
Well-Known Member
Cool.
I like the little red things. Is that lichen fruiting bodies?
I like the little red things. Is that lichen fruiting bodies?
Yes they are a species of lichen. There are probably 6 or 7 different lichen species around this plant. Probably each one secretes something different.
Stone
Well-Known Member
I've only ever had lichens grow on an old slab of cork with a dend mounted on it. It was mostly outside but continued to grow in the glasshouse. Lichens need fresh air/wind continuously: (3rd pic)
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26712&highlight=dendrobium+teretifolium
That is a great example and a beautiful grown specimen!
You said you planted the lichen on it, how long ago?
What fertilizer do you apply to it?
I don't think lichens need wind to grow as there are plenty inside the dense forest well protected from wind.
But fresh air YES! Fresh air meaning clean air free of pollution.
Our orchid plants are probably more effected by the atmosphere content than we realize. Lichens fix many chemicals from the atmosphere so we should not discount the idea that aerial orchid roots might have some of the same abilities. Even if it is only because the thick spongy orchid roots provide a host environment for lichens, moss, fungi and bacteria that does the job.
Your specimen looks to be a complete self contained environmental machine.
Stone....Look at the roots of your plant.... they are covered with something green.... please look closely and determine if it is algae or tiny lichens.
I planted a little native bulbophyllum and some lichen on this one and both are growing well!
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
You in Peru grow way better than I in South Africa. I think perhaps I should give up my day job and concentrate on activities that make me happy, perhaps then I will be able to approach what you achieve.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
Thanks for that Lance. My wife is going to love that advice!
Stone
Well-Known Member
The plant was sold a while ago. I have a feeling the green was an algae living inside the roots but also on the cork. But isn't lichen a combination of fungi and algae anyway. The grey lichen is a common species here. I actually planted some (just for that wild appearence) here and there using tweezers as apparently lichens can die if you touch them with your fingers. After planting they took hold quickly and colonized other parts of the cork slab within 6 months. I didn't fertilize that often but when I did the lichen was not affected and actually seemed to do better. The orchid definitly had to be fed to grow well. The fert was just standard stuff at your typical 1/2 strength dilution.
Stone
Well-Known Member
The plant was sold a while ago. I have a feeling the green was an algae living inside the roots but also on the cork. But isn't lichen a combination of fungi and algae anyway. The grey lichen is a common species here. I actually planted some here and there using tweezers as apparently lichens can die if you touch them with your fingers. After planting they took hold quickly and colonized other parts of the cork slab. I didn't fertilize that often but when I did the lichen was not affected and actually seemed to do better. The orchid definitly had to be fed to grow well. The fert was just standard stuff at your typical 1/2 strength dilution.
