Wild Orchids - Roots and Nutrition

[gonewild]

Looking at how wild orchid roots are associated with what the grow in.
How do the roots obtain nutrients?

Epidendrum growing in moss

 

[Ray]

Cascading rainfall, decomposition of the flora around it.

Pretty substantial proof of a meager supply, to my mind.

 

[Rick]

Do you have a pic of the whole plant Lance?

It seems a pretty common notion that insitu plants are starving and decrepit. Not realizing their full potential of living in a GH with weekly feedings of 100ppm N

 

[gonewild]

Cascading rainfall, decomposition of the flora around it.

Pretty substantial proof of a meager supply, to my mind.

Yes the supply looks to be very limited.

These plants have no canopy cover that could leach minerals for them.

This moss is deep and very loose inside. Most of the roots pass through air space and are not in contact with the moss as much as you might think. It appears that all the nutrients must come from the moss. maybe some from the rock under the moss but most roots are in the moss. I have to dig deeper to have a better look.

 

[gonewild]

Do you have a pic of the whole plant Lance?

It seems a pretty common notion that insitu plants are starving and decrepit. Not realizing their full potential of living in a GH with weekly feedings of 100ppm N

Yes I have more pics to post but am without electricity today. I only had a few minutes late in the day to look at these plants and snap a few pics. i will be looking closer and taking better pictures.

I the past I never really paid attention to where the nutrients might come from. This time looking at what is above the plants it seems that there is very little through fall water hitting the roots.

Plants insitu are certainly not starving but at the same time they certainly are not a lush green color. yellow green foliage is the norm.
I doubt that rainfall brings much in the way of ppms

I have not had a chance to test water within the root zone but small streams below usually measure less than 30ppm, and these are running over mud and rock that lies below the orchids.

More pics and observations to follow....

 

[SlipperFan]

Keep researching, Lance. This is interesting. The more in situ photos I see, the more I notice the association with moss.

 

[gonewild]

Keep researching, Lance. This is interesting. The more in situ photos I see, the more I notice the association with moss.

That is what I am seeing also. Roots almost always have some moss. And the moss is not like sphagnum moss. It could be that moss plays a major role for nutrients. I'll get more serious about what I find and will keep posting in this thread. These pics were just a quick trip (5 minutes to take the pics) to the lower elevation of the orchid zone here.

 

[paphioboy]

Source of nutrients: Bird poop!

 

[gonewild]

Here are some area shots of the Epidendrum location.
Pay attention to the other plants and vegetation and note the color of the foliage, it is not dark lush green.

 

[NYEric]

Yes I have more pics to post but am without electricity today.More pics and observations to follow....

Thanks. If you own the place maybe you can get solar panels and batteries?

 

[goldenrose]

feeding off fungi for nutrients???

 

[gonewild]

feeding off fungi for nutrients???

Or maybe algae
or lichens?

 

[Trithor]

Thanks. If you own the place maybe you can get solar panels and batteries?

:rollhappy:

That is a great series of in-situ photos, thank you. The close association with lichen is interesting. I had a Madagascar peppercorn tree in my garden which I had planted with a variety of orchids. They always grew much better where the bark had a lot of lichen. So much so that I stopped trying to establish orchids where lichen was not present. I could never figure out if it was just that they appreciated similar microclimate/position or of it was something more?

 

[Stone]

Looking at how wild orchid roots are associated with what the grow in.
How do the roots obtain nutrients?

Epidendrum growing in moss

Oh you just put that there.
(very nice pics Lance!)
Notice the roots going down to find the humus layer where all the goodies are? thats when it will really take off and flower.

 

[Secundino]

Nope. The mayor apport of nutrients for tropical epiphytes is dust. The epiphytes alltogether act like a most effective sponge and filter with a high retention capacity. Beside this they provide shadow, high moisture and extra cooling for a great part of the orchid roots.

Using lichens as potting medium does not work, at least with the Usnea sp. we know over here. Many - including me - have tried, but the lichens decompose very quickly if packed in a pot and make an ugly, bad smelling slime after a short time. Orchid roots don't like that at all, but love to grow under the protection of lichens.

 

[paphioboy]

I personally believe that most wild orchids (the epiphytes, at least) are more efficient in extracting nutrients than we expect and believe.. Tell me, where do these Doritis pulcherrima get their nutrients from, other than the occasional dead leaf which collects among the roots?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ObDFi2KqQK4/TqHhAx8LKkI/AAAAAAAACEs/uUWyofDJEiE/s1600/P1320045.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rhSIHqClZv4/TqHfi-atSPI/AAAAAAAACEE/TM57CQ8y2M8/s1600/P1320124.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4gWgBXJeORY/TqHf0svyYOI/AAAAAAAACEQ/lvrS2t-RL_E/s1600/P1320122.JPG

 

[gonewild]

:rollhappy:

That is a great series of in-situ photos, thank you. The close association with lichen is interesting. I had a Madagascar peppercorn tree in my garden which I had planted with a variety of orchids. They always grew much better where the bark had a lot of lichen. So much so that I stopped trying to establish orchids where lichen was not present. I could never figure out if it was just that they appreciated similar microclimate/position or of it was something more?

Does the peppercorm tree naturally support orchids in the wild?

 

[gonewild]

Oh you just put that there.
(very nice pics Lance!)
Notice the roots going down to find the humus layer where all the goodies are? thats when it will really take off and flower.

The roots actually go out horizontally through the moss. they don't head quickly downward as if going for the bottom. Although there are roots down where the rock is and where there is some humus most roots are high in the moss. I have to look more closely at the entire root system.
I don't want to assume that the roots are getting nutrients only from humus, there must be another source.

 

[gonewild]

Nope. The mayor apport of nutrients for tropical epiphytes is dust. The epiphytes alltogether act like a most effective sponge and filter with a high retention capacity. Beside this they provide shadow, high moisture and extra cooling for a great part of the orchid roots.

Possibly and that has been a standard assumption. But where does the dust come from in the wet tropical forest? When it rains everyday and nothing is dry to to produce "dust" and this wet time is when the plants would have the highest nutrient demand?

Using lichens as potting medium does not work, at least with the Usnea sp. we know over here. Many - including me - have tried, but the lichens decompose very quickly if packed in a pot and make an ugly, bad smelling slime after a short time. Orchid roots don't like that at all, but love to grow under the protection of lichens.

I'm not suggesting lichens are a potting or rooting media. Healthy growing lichens are know to secret various chemicals so my question is... could orchid plants use the secreted chemicals from lichens as a source for nutrients? So do orchid roots love to grow under lichens for protection or because there are nutrients present?

 

[JeanLux]

I personally believe that most wild orchids (the epiphytes, at least) are more efficient in extracting nutrients than we expect and believe.. Tell me, where do these Doritis pulcherrima get their nutrients from, other than the occasional dead leaf which collects among the roots?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ObDFi2KqQK4/TqHhAx8LKkI/AAAAAAAACEs/uUWyofDJEiE/s1600/P1320045.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rhSIHqClZv4/TqHfi-atSPI/AAAAAAAACEE/TM57CQ8y2M8/s1600/P1320124.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4gWgBXJeORY/TqHf0svyYOI/AAAAAAAACEQ/lvrS2t-RL_E/s1600/P1320122.JPG

impressive pics too, thanks Li!!!! Jean