Using Green Moss as a topdressing

[orchidman77]

Hi folks!

I have seen several people post full-plant pictures of their slippers in pots that are top-dressed in some green moss. What do you guys think about this as a general practice? My inclination would be that it can be a good thing for keeping the top of the mix moist (since mosses stay pretty wet) and it, of course, looks nicer than bits of bright white perlite. Especially for phrags, I think the low fertilizer requirements and constant moisture could be helpful in having moss grow on the surface of the mix.

But does this do any good for the plant? Is it just something people do to improve the whole look of their plants? I am considering purchasing some green moss spores to start, but wanted to know what other people do and/or think about this practice.

David

 

[Erythrone]

Think it is good for Phrags or maybe it could be a sign the media is good for Phrag growing.... Don't know for other genus since I don't see a lot of green moss with orchids growing in drier media.

 

[mrhappyrotter]

Is it possible that the moss you're seeing is actually living moss that's growing on the substrate? This is common to see on plants that have been grown in high humidity and with lots of moisture, such as in a greenhouse.

I think live moss is probably beneficial, particularly to mounted plants and terrestrial growers. They are at least a sign of good growing conditions for many slippers, since they need clean water, decent light, and good humidity ... things that many slippers also need. I personally also like the appearance of a fresh carpet of moss. It's difficult for me to achieve/maintain good moss growth on most of my plants, but I do try, simply because I like the way it looks.

I've never tried the spores, but I've had good success with culturing moss from plants I've purchased that already had decent moss growth. I just break it into clumps and squish it down into other pots to get it started. You might also be able to collect some moss from from the wild. Look for stuff that's growing on rock/brick/cement/sidewalks, as it seems to adapt best to growing in orchid pots with chunkier media. I also end up with other plants, like ferns and liverworts. I leave the liverworts, but pluck the ferns.

You might also look into making some kind of moss / spore slurry to help spread the moss around. The recipes I've seen call for beer and/or buttermilk, so you may need to figure out a way to adapt that for indoor growing where you wouldn't necessarily want the odors indoors.

Also, as far as benefits go, nothing scientific but it's possible that the moss produces some nutrients that could be beneficial. It's also likely that the moss acts as a slow release fertilizer as it grows and breaks down. It's a good micro-biome for bacteria and fungi, which might in turn provide their own benefits to slippers and other plants.

 

[Kostas]

I would say that the moss you see growing on the substrate is simply a welcome ''weed'' that simply thrives in the conditions most Phragmipedium want. Few take special care of it, it just thrives along with the Phragmipedium. Even when growing the Phragmipedium indoors, the moss still grows and thrives. Here is my kovachii's substrate




I added a some wild moss strands upon repotting of the plant about 3 weeks ago and it is thriving and growing with watering only every 3 days and the bottom of the substrate sitting in water. And that is in indoor conditions, not a greenhouse. I think that within a few months, it will fill the surface of the substrate as its spreading fast and then it should start thickening.
I also get moss in my trays of bromeliad seedlings which i have to spray twice daily to keep the seedlings happy. I never inoculated their bark/peat substrate, the moss grew on its own there. If the conditions are right for it, its an easy and welcome ''weed'' for me

 

[NYEric]

Live moss is the best thing you can have for Paphs and Phrags in my opinion. it works to keep moisture in, plus roots grow well in it. BTW, it takes moisture and lots of light!

 

[John M]

This is the Phrag. Photograph forum. For continued discussion (and for future reference), this thread should be moved to the "Slipper Orchid Culture" forum.

 

[orchidman77]

This is the Phrag. Photograph forum. For continued discussion (and for future reference), this thread should be moved to the "Slipper Orchid Culture" forum.

So sorry, I didn't realize that. Is there a way I can move this thread? I didn't see one...

David

 

[John M]

So sorry, I didn't realize that. Is there a way I can move this thread? I didn't see one...

David

Maybe when Heather gets a minute, she'll do it. Or, I think Dot also can move threads.

 

[SlipperFan]

Done. Good idea!

 

[Stone]

Every plant I've ever bought with moss growing in the pot had rotten roots. (but that's just me)
I don't like it and I get rid of it when I see it.

 

[Rick]

I've noticed that if the moss is thriving the orchids are thriving.

So I tend to use the moss growth as an indicator of good conditions. I agree with Mrhappyrotter generally. There is a potential for beneficial interactions.

In the wild, a lot of N fixing takes place in the blue-green algaes associated with mosses or lichens, and orchids are frequently associated with mosses and lichens.

As I cut down on my N application rate I'm getting more luxuriant moss growth in my collection. Even on mounted plants that I didn't even seed with moss.

Maybe they are making up for the low N rates I'm feeding Maybe not.

But I'm pretty happy with my results.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I use sheet moss as top dressing. They are dead and dyed green, although after a few watering, the color comes off and the moss turns ugly brown.

I use it for two purposes; to keep the potting from flowing all over and to keep the top of the mix to dry out too much.

Regarding using live moss as top dress, I don't think it has any direct benefits.

From what I understand, N fixing is done through certain microorganism like cyanobacteria and other bacteria, and certain plants (mostly legume family) can also fix nitrogen with the help of bacteria living in their roots. Lichen works in the similar way, which is a composite of fungus and cyanobacteria, and in this case, the N fixed by cyanobacteria benefits the fungus, not other plants. It's part of the benefit of their relationship.

So, I don't think moss and/or lichen contribute to orchids or other plants as a source of nitrogen unless they are dead and decomposed.

Their presence certainly indicates good environment.
Moss likes it bright (not sunny all the time) and moist, and lichen likes clean air.

Anyways, some moss will surely die on the pot, so they might serve as a source of some amount of nitrogen eventually. I don't know how significant that might actually be on the small pot, though.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Every plant I've ever bought with moss growing in the pot had rotten roots. (but that's just me)
I don't like it and I get rid of it when I see it.

You said you love to water. Maybe not.
Moss covered pot may not dry out as fast and thus, your loving watering might rot out the roots I think?

Yeah, whatever works for you is the best.

 

[Stone]

You said you love to water. Maybe not.
Moss covered pot may not dry out as fast and thus, your loving watering might rot out the roots I think?

Yeah, whatever works for you is the best.

I always repot orchids that I buy as soon as I get them home. None of my plants have moss growing on the top of the mix. Almost all the plants I have purchased with a thick layer of moss growing over the medium have had very poor or rotted roots.
Yes I do love to water and if there is moss on the surface they would not dry out for weeks. - Not my idea of good culture. If any plant stays wet for more than say 4 or 5 days in summer, me no likey! Of course it's completely different with baskets where the bottom is open. But for plastic pots it's just a bad thing in my g/house. Occasionally when it's really hot and dry in summer I might put a thin layer of sphag on the top to slow down the drying. The best thing for holding the mix in place is fern fibre if you can get it.
Also I agree that you can completely disregard any nutrient imput from the moss itself. However it does hold a lot of supplied nutrients. I'm tring some barbata types in a treefern/sphag moss mix...just for fun..

 

[Happypaphy7]

What is fern fiber?
Treefern root stuff that is very uncommon now? or?

The best maudiae hybrid I once had grew in quite badly decomposed mix of coconut husk chips, perlite, charcoal and clay balls.
I never repotted for about four years or so. Then, one day, the leaves started to look funny. lol

I have never tried treefern roots, but have read that they hold good for good ten years or so.
Now I can only find them offered in the form of totem mount or very small pieces. I would like medium sized pieces but hard to find.

I bet barbarta paphs will love it.

 

[Bjorn]

Moss is an organism that cannot tolerate anything but very low levels of salts in the water. So, if your culture is based on very low fertiliser levels using water that is sufficiently pure, and you water sufficiently, then moss will appear. The limit? may be 50-100ppm - just my suggestion. Well, except for that IMHO moss CAN become a nuisance, particularly for tiny plants. In my environment, its not uncommon for me to "weed" moss. I do not do it unless its actually doing some harm though. Ferns are a much bigger issue.
Substrate disintegration; well I do not believe that is a big problem. The roots can do well growing in disintegrated substrate, provided it has not turned "sour". This souring or whatever we should term it, in my perception is caused by accumulation of fertilizer residue that gets adsorbed to the colloids. The amount of such adsorbates will after some time reach a level that gets poisonous for the roots and then they start to die. And the phenomenon I call "souring " starts. After a while repotting is required.
In nature repotting is not a common practice, neither is the supply of nutirents higher than a one-digit ppm level. Of course since house-plants are pot-bound they need all their nutrients to be provided in the fertiliser (since the roots cannot sprawl around for them and the fertiliser needs to contain relevant amounts of the relevant ingredients. Xavier indicated that Boron was important. In my opinion he may be into something, I am currently using a fertiliser mix that I made containing more boron than common. But it could be something else, like lack of humates etc

 

[Stone]

Substrate disintegration; well I do not believe that is a big problem. The roots can do well growing in disintegrated substrate, provided it has not turned "sour". This souring or whatever we should term it, in my perception is caused by accumulation of fertilizer residue that gets adsorbed to the colloids. The amount of such adsorbates will after some time reach a level that gets poisonous for the roots and then they start to die. And the phenomenon I call "souring " starts.

In the ''old days'' when they grew paphs in fern fibre, moss, leaves etc and never fed them at all they still complained about ''souring'' after a while. I'm sure fertilizer contributes to the problem but I think the simple breakdown of some organic matter is also a problem. Possibly acidification (?) or insufficient flushing to remove wastes which cause a chemical imbalance? I don't know.
Boron and Manganese? Maybe, but they are easy enough to replace. A while ago one of our club members brought in a suk which had not been repotted for years and was growing in mushy peaty crap. Growths where very small (leaves about 2 inches long) but it still had 4 flowers so it must have had funtioning roots. If you feed such a mix you would probably kill the plant in a short time. He did not feed much if anything. I think the older the mix the less you should feed for sure! However the plant would have been much better if it had been repotted earlier and fed a little.

 

[Stone]

What is fern fiber?
Treefern root stuff that is very uncommon now? or?

Fern fibre is the roots of several different species of ferns. Osmunda from Osmudna regalis is one of the best. Tree fern fibre is taken from the above ground trunk. It's fibres are much stiffer and tougher but still ''fern roots''

 

[Bjorn]

Mike, you are of course right, and there is something we do not understand here. Just saying that it is caused by accumulation of something or lack of something may not give the entire picture either. I guess it wil rarely be negative to use inorganic components in the compost, I use it all the time, if it is lime-stone, then the acidification will be counteracted, but will the longivety of the mix increase? I do not know. And then there is the water....which can contain things that accumulates and eventually cause necrosis and turn the rootball into mush......possibly.....I use that mix of Lance Birk, which contains bark, sheet-moss and sand , then the mix seems to last remarkably longer than else. Could it be the sand?

 

[Paul]

I have topped many of my Paphs and Phrags with living moss (picked up on humid old stone walls) and most of the plants (if not all of them) really love that. But, it needs special requirement to me, so not for all growing pratices in my opinion. I water quite often and add little fertilizer, also I flush with pure neutral water to keep the pH not too low (over 6). this moss is very tolerant to salts, I water at 300 to 400µS/cm and it remains green