Using Green Moss as a topdressing

[NYEric]

Moss sadiste!!

 

[paphioboy]

Not all moss are created equal...(??)

 

[Rick]

From what I understand, N fixing is done through certain microorganism like cyanobacteria and other bacteria, and certain plants (mostly legume family) can also fix nitrogen with the help of bacteria living in their roots. Lichen works in the similar way, which is a composite of fungus and cyanobacteria, and in this case, the N fixed by cyanobacteria benefits the fungus, not other plants. It's part of the benefit of their relationship.

Cyanobacteria = Bluegreen algaes, which grow in association with mosses.

There are papers out there that show net + (as well as net 0) of fixed N coming from living epiphytic bryophyte and lichen colonies in both temperate and tropical forests.

So there is documentation of other plants deriving N indirectly from association with bryophytes even when alive.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Cyanobacteria is not the same thing as blue green algae although they are sometimes used as such.
It is highly misleading.
They add totally different organism.

Plus, I think Cyanobacteria mainly occur in a body of water.

I think you are referring to algae. Also, bryophytes are also different things than algae.
I think bryophytes contain moss in their group if I recall correctly.
So you are mixing three different life forms creating confusions here.

 

[Rick]

Cyanobacteria is not the same thing as blue green algae although they are sometimes used as such.
It is highly misleading.
They add totally different organism.

Plus, I think Cyanobacteria mainly occur in a body of water.

I think you are referring to algae. Also, bryophytes are also different things than algae.
I think bryophytes contain moss in their group if I recall correctly.
So you are mixing three different life forms creating confusions here.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/2399396?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Thirty second google search. This one has "bluegreen algaes (Cyanobacteria)" growing directly on leaves on tropical plants and supplying 10-25% of fixed N needs.

Other papers were linked to similar threads on moss/lichen association in the past.

 

[Rick]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683619/

This paper also talks about link between cyanobacteria -moss associations as driver of N fixing in Boreal forest, but can't tell how much N is from direct leaching or decomp of dead moss.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Ok, I just read that first page appearing on that website.
Interesting!
I wonder if the nitrogen just leaks out and plant leaves just absorb through the leaf surface then??

By the way, again, I find it confusing/misleading to define Cyanobacteria as the same thing as blue green algae. Especially when the paper goes on to use algae later on to displace the Cyanobacteria in the text.

 

[Happypaphy7]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683619/

This paper also talks about link between cyanobacteria -moss associations as driver of N fixing in Boreal forest, but can't tell how much N is from direct leaching or decomp of dead moss.

What???? 192 pages!
I'm outside waking around.


Thanks, I'll look into it later.

I'm well aware of lichen ( composite of Cyanobacteria and fungus), so other association between Cyanobacteria and other living things are definitely possible.
I just wasn't aware of them.

 

[Rick]

Ok, I just read that first page appearing on that website.
Interesting!
I wonder if the nitrogen just leaks out and plant leaves just absorb through the leaf surface then??

By the way, again, I find it confusing/misleading to define Cyanobacteria as the same thing as blue green algae. Especially when the paper goes on to use algae later on to displace the Cyanobacteria in the text.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria

Not trying to mislead, and I realize not everyone trusts Wikipedia for accuracy, but "BG algae" has been the common name for Cyanobacteria for a long time.

 

[gonewild]

I wonder if the nitrogen just leaks out and plant leaves just absorb through the leaf surface then??

The organisms are also present on and in orchid roots. So any nutrients that the living organisms excrete can move very quickly into the plant.
The nutrients excreted by organisms that colonize on leaf surfaces are likely absorbed directly through the leaf but also the nutrients can "flow" from leaf surface to root by moisture that forms as dew at night. In a rainstorm these nutrients would mostly wash past the roots of the host plant too fast but they could benefit another plant down stream in the stem flow.

 

[Rick]

Those insitu pics that CXCANH just posted on tranlineanum I thought were very telling with regard to N availability to cliff dwelling slippers.

Nothing but a thin layer of dripping damp moss on trickling wet limestone rock.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Those insitu pics that CXCANH just posted on tranlineanum I thought were very telling with regard to N availability to cliff dwelling slippers.

Nothing but a thin layer of dripping damp moss on trickling wet limestone rock.

No, there are lots more than just miss actually.
Dead plants ( and most likely other dead stuff and poops haha) on and around all over the area.
Plus, everytime there's a flow of water, there might be nutrients in it for the plans to take up and use.

 

[Rick]

No, there are lots more than just miss actually.
Dead plants ( and most likely other dead stuff and poops haha) on and around all over the area.
Plus, everytime there's a flow of water, there might be nutrients in it for the plans to take up and use.

We've covered this in other threads and plenty of research out there.

Any fixed N in the flowing water must come from the aforementioned cyanobacteria in your earlier thread. Either directly as in the paper I linked or from decomposing plant material. The amount of "poop" or decomposing bodies from higher life forms has been demonstrated to be insignificant.

The NPK of the flow through water has been measured/ quantified and published in journal articles.

Problem is that high rainfall in tropical areas really dilutes the fixed N coming out of accumulated dead fall (which is pretty sparse in vertical habitats relative to the forest floor), so you end up with more spot uptake from N fixation process proximal to the plant rather than concentrated distant sources.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I know. I think I've read it somewhere here on ST.
The thing is I also remember that there were many different views and it's not totally conclusive or accurate.

I suspect that the flow-through water has lots of stuff in it as well for obvious reasons, but perhaps in the very first few drops might have higher concentration of available nutrients.

 

[Rick]

I suspect that the flow-through water has lots of stuff in it as well for obvious reasons, but perhaps in the very first few drops might have higher concentration of available nutrients.

Well there was a paper I linked here a few years ago that got the 1st flush #s out of epiphytic bird nest ferns in Borneo. And including the ant poop it was pretty dang sparse.

I've seen a lot of conjecture and opinion without substantiated study and math.

You are welcome to add your own studies showing the opposite.

Orchids are the masters of the impoverished habitat.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I don't have my own studies, and I won't go into the habitat to take samples.