Star Wars

[Ozpaph]

I really enjoyed it. Not kitch like Ep 1 & 2. Much more like 4 and 5. A nice extension. Abrams influence reminds me of the Star Trek movies - darker, edgier, harder than the original trilogy.

 

[paphioland]

Slight Spoiler: Truthfully I was expecting more. The story felt cheap. Reusing exact plot lines. Plans in droid, bigger Death Star, relationships of new characters, new evil guy. In addition the story had convenience conveniently fabricated into the heart of the movie. Everything that happened was too convenient and becomes like a child movie. Not enjoyable after awhile. The movie was socially progressive which was great but I feel that the story line had no vision. It's like he plagiarized the whole movie with new characters who were similar to old ones except for switching gender and race. Actually they are better actors than most of original cast. He could have done so much more with these characters. Given them their own story. There were also very unrealistic scenes from what we know of the force and other previous characters like anakin, the most naturally talented their can be. I don't want to spoil it too much. Overall the movie was visually beautiful, progressive casting, and well acted but the story had no vision and I hope this changes which it may. I also wish he would follow more of the original ideas about the force, training and ability to translate that into power. Anyways my two cents. So my ranking is based on that. I'd put it after 3. 3 had better story and vision but worse acting. In my opinion 3 was a more important movie.

 

[Ozpaph]

I think it wasn't 'original' because it needed a very strong link to the 'old' trilogy. I hope we'll see some divergence in the next movies. ie who is Rey?
It left enough unanswered questions to hold attention but familiar enough to re-engage with the 'faithful'.

 

[ehanes7612]

Slight Spoiler: Truthfully I was expecting more. The story felt cheap. Reusing exact plot lines. Plans in droid, bigger Death Star, relationships of new characters, new evil guy. In addition the story had convenience conveniently fabricated into the heart of the movie. Everything that happened was too convenient and becomes like a child movie. Not enjoyable after awhile. The movie was socially progressive which was great but I feel that the story line had no vision. It's like he plagiarized the whole movie with new characters who were similar to old ones except for switching gender and race. Actually they are better actors than most of original cast. He could have done so much more with these characters. Given them their own story. There were also very unrealistic scenes from what we know of the force and other previous characters like anakin, the most naturally talented their can be. I don't want to spoil it too much. Overall the movie was visually beautiful, progressive casting, and well acted but the story had no vision and I hope this changes which it may. I also wish he would follow more of the original ideas about the force, training and ability to translate that into power. Anyways my two cents. So my ranking is based on that. I'd put it after 3. 3 had better story and vision but worse acting. In my opinion 3 was a more important movie.

Slight spoiler alert but not anything you couldn't have got from the previews : Agreed, 3 was the most important for the entire Star Wars franchise.. But Lucas did a horrible job directing the actors ( what's new) and made the film difficult to watch for this reason. The storyline was necessary but what's the point if the movie can't engage you ( I have watched 4,5,and 6 hundreds of times, 1 about a dozen times, 2 three times and 3 twice). I also felt the editing in 3 was a hack job of someone who wanted to get the film over with, toward the end the transitions from one scene to another were painful to watch. I would agree that 7 rang like a child's movie. The dialogue was overly simple and corny, (except between Rey and Fin). But the direction of the actors was masterful and the characters transitioned effectively from one scene to another. At times I felt that the plot hurried a little but it wasn't a distraction. The most important element to 7 is the establishment of the relationships between the characters. I felt Abrams did an incredible job of conveying the bonds between specific characters, especially between Rey and Fin ( and that John Boyega was really good in his role). This will be very important for the success of the trilogy.

 

[ehanes7612]

I think it wasn't 'original' because it needed a very strong link to the 'old' trilogy. I hope we'll see some divergence in the next movies. ie who is Rey?
It left enough unanswered questions to hold attention but familiar enough to re-engage with the 'faithful'.

WHo is Rey? the million dollar question

 

[paphioland]

WHo is Rey? the million dollar question

Luke's daughter. Hopefully. It's a shame Lucas couldn't be involved with the plot and let jj take care of making his vision into a movie. While I like the connection of the characters they are too strongly nostalgic of other characters relationships. Like when poe and fin embraced was so reminiscent of Luke and Han. And the romantic building is similar to leia Han. If we are getting into spoilers now I didn't like how Rey was so powerful with no training. She beat a sith in training albeit he was injured but still. Anakin took years and was battle tests in the clone wars. He was still weaker than the emperor and yoda thought obibwan had a good chance of beating him. Anakin is inherently the strongest character. He has the most talent. He was conceived by the force, prophesied, highest mitchlorian counts blah blah. I will not except a stronger character so soon in time. This is a short period of time in the galaxy. So Rey can not be more talented than anakin. If she is jj had done starwars a great disservice. So how is Rey doing these things? It's possible that kylo is just weak or kept weak. He is obviously still in training. Still. How did Fin survive? Anakin a grandson can't kill and untrained person with a light saber easily? The whole thing didn't make sense to me with my understanding and obsessing over the years about capability and actual usable power in starwars and parallel universe.

 

[ehanes7612]

Luke's daughter. Hopefully. It's a shame Lucas couldn't be involved with the plot and let jj take care of making his vision into a movie. While I like the connection of the characters they are too strongly nostalgic of other characters relationships. Like when poe and fin embraced was so reminiscent of Luke and Han. And the romantic building is similar to leia Han. If we are getting into spoilers now I didn't like how Rey was so powerful with no training. She beat a sith in training albeit he was injured but still. Anakin took years and was battle tests in the clone wars. He was still weaker than the emperor and yoda thought obibwan had a good chance of beating him. Anakin is inherently the strongest character. He has the most talent. He was conceived by the force, prophesied, highest mitchlorian counts blah blah. I will not except a stronger character so soon in time. This is a short period of time in the galaxy. So Rey can not be more talented than anakin. If she is jj had done starwars a great disservice. So how is Rey doing these things? It's possible that kylo is just weak or kept weak. He is obviously still in training. Still. How did Fin survive? Anakin a grandson can't kill and untrained person with a light saber easily? The whole thing didn't make sense to me with my understanding and obsessing over the years about capability and actual usable power in starwars and parallel universe.

Spoiler Alert: Luke's daughter? probably, but that doesn't really answer the question. It's fairly obvious that Rey has strong convictions about longing for a family and that she has had to fend for herself for many years. This builds strength in character. It's obvious that she has been isolated most of her life (she is pretty damn strong mentally and physically), who knows what she has learned from that isolation (I am sure we will find out) Her character is unlike anything we have seen in Star Wars (there is your originality). Anakin may be the strongest with the force but only because of a high amount of midi-chlorianes. The guy was seriously conflicted and it stands to reason that Kylo would be too and for those who have watched, you have to put Kylo and Fin's fight into the context of what just happened inside the station..and he was physically injured in the gut (and Fin was a trained Storm Trooper). Then there is the fight between Rey and Kylo, come on, the guy was seriously injured in the gut, Fin did some damage and perhaps you missed it, but Kylo didnt exactly want to kill her..he wanted to convert her to the dark side..that compromises one's convictions. You obviously need to watch the film again ..I am going again tomorrow

 

[cattmad]

on that point I think JJ was giving away that the lightsaber somehow knew it belonged to her

When Ren is torturing Rey he says he sees her dreams, she dreams of an ocean with an Island, given where she finds luke its apparent they are not dreams and that luke can see her from where he is in hiding

 

[ehanes7612]

When Ren is torturing Rey he says he sees her dreams, she dreams of an ocean with an Island, given where she finds luke its apparent they are not dreams and that luke can see her from where he is in hiding

cool, i missed that connection

 

[paphioland]

Spoiler Alert: Luke's daughter? probably, but that doesn't really answer the question. It's fairly obvious that Rey has strong convictions about longing for a family and that she has had to fend for herself for many years. This builds strength in character. It's obvious that she has been isolated most of her life (she is pretty damn strong mentally and physically), who knows what she has learned from that isolation (I am sure we will find out) Her character is unlike anything we have seen in Star Wars (there is your originality). Anakin may be the strongest with the force but only because of a high amount of midi-chlorianes. The guy was seriously conflicted and it stands to reason that Kylo would be too and for those who have watched, you have to put Kylo and Fin's fight into the context of what just happened inside the station..and he was physically injured in the gut (and Fin was a trained Storm Trooper). Then there is the fight between Rey and Kylo, come on, the guy was seriously injured in the gut, Fin did some damage and perhaps you missed it, but Kylo didnt exactly want to kill her..he wanted to convert her to the dark side..that compromises one's convictions. You obviously need to watch the film again ..I am going again tomorrow

I've already seen it twice. At the first showing and iMax the next day. Someone of his level against someone with no force training it is not keeping with the spirit of starwars. She should have had no chance to hurt him. Even injured. It would be like me grappling with someone similar size and athleticism never grappled and I've been doing bjj for 16 yrs. In starwars it is obvious regardless of your talent and strength with the force you need to train. Unless Fin was very powerful with the force he should have been able to just throw him with the force out of the way or choke him or freeze him

 

[ehanes7612]

I've already seen it twice. At the first showing and iMax the next day. Someone of his level against someone with no force training it is not keeping with the spirit of starwars. She should have had no chance to hurt him. Even injured. It would be like me grappling with someone similar size and athleticism never grappled and I've been doing bjj for 16 yrs. In starwars it is obvious regardless of your talent and strength with the force you need to train. Unless Fin was very powerful with the force he should have been able to just throw him with the force out of the way or choke him or freeze him

Good point. Come to think of it .. In LOST, the smoke monster easily kills everyone except the mercenaries. I guess that's what they call artistic license. Abrams does that.. Continuity issues with both LOST and Fringe.

 

[paphioland]

In addition when kylo states that the longer rey is on the super duper Death Star the more difficult she will become as she learns of her power. What the day or two she is in there? Just doesn't seem right. How much training did it take anakin to be able to defeat dooku and anakin is more talented than Rey. Yoda tells obiwan that he is not powerful enough to stop the emperor and that he should go kill anakin. Anakin has more potential than yoda or the emperor but even with all his training and battles in the clone wars he still was not a master. He didn't have enough experience or wisdom. I do think that anakin was toying with obiwan but then his personality issues got the better of him. I guess you could say kylo was toying with fin and he was hurt. But there is a trend of misrepresenting strength with the force and actual power based in strength with the force, training and experience. Or jj is trying to redefine the power levels of previous characters. Meaning Rey is more powerful than anakin which is absurd

 

[ehanes7612]

In addition when kylo states that the longer rey is on the super duper Death Star the more difficult she will become as she learns of her power. What the day or two she is in there? Just doesn't seem right. How much training did it take anakin to be able to defeat dooku and anakin is more talented than Rey. Yoda tells obiwan that he is not powerful enough to stop the emperor and that he should go kill anakin. Anakin has more potential than yoda or the emperor but even with all his training and battles in the clone wars he still was not a master. He didn't have enough experience or wisdom. I do think that anakin was toying with obiwan but then his personality issues got the better of him. I guess you could say kylo was toying with fin and he was hurt. But there is a trend of misrepresenting strength with the force and actual power based in strength with the force, training and experience. Or jj is trying to redefine the power levels of previous characters. Meaning Rey is more powerful than anakin which is absurd

Yeah, most people aren't going to be bothered by this academic distinction between force and strength, but for those who do like you .. remember what Darth Vader says in ANH ..
"Don't get too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force" . This quote allows Abrams a lot of latitude as it suggests that the force dictates the situations, and not necessarily training and human intervention . The force has a mind if it's own

 

[ehanes7612]

And you are forgetting to take into account another thing.. the title of the movie.

 

[paphioland]

I don't know if that is what Vader is implying. I don't think the force takes sides. It is something that is already there but can be harnessed by those in touch with it. Some people are more in touch with it than others. Can be used for good or evil. I feel like the force doesn't recognize good and evil that is the intelligent living creatures' distinction. The Jedi and sith just use the force that is already there differently. I think the name of the movie implies that there are more people in touch with the force. Truthfully I don't like the name either.

 

[ehanes7612]

I don't know if that is what Vader is implying. I don't think the force takes sides. It is something that is already there but can be harnessed by those in touch with it. Some people are more in touch with it than others. Can be used for good or evil. I feel like the force doesn't recognize good and evil that is the intelligent living creatures' distinction. The Jedi and sith just use the force that is already there differently. I think the name of the movie implies that there are more people in touch with the force. Truthfully I don't like the name either.

So Anakin had the highest number of midi-chlorianes (Star Wars is still a reflection of our own society, with the constant struggle between intelligent design and randomness) .. Perhaps it's not taking sides but at least it implies that the force is choosing individuals to create balance? I don't think the force makes distinctions between evil and good either, to be honest with you. But if some people are more in touch than others, then why cant Rey really, really be open to it, even moreso than Anakin?

 

[paphioland]

Obviously this is not scientific but my understanding of Lucas's vision. Anakin was "good" and "evil" in one. I feel like jj missed some of the fine subtle aspects of the force and fighting confrontations.
When yoda and the emperor finally met how bad ass was that. Who is more powerful? Who has better knowledge of the force who can yield the force to wield a light saber better. These were things I always wanted to know and analyzed. I feel like jj just crapped on them a little. Lol

 

[paphioland]

It was always a shame we never got to see anakin's potential realized. Even though it was better it never was realized. He lost much of his connection with the force by much of his body becoming a robot. He couldn't even wield the sith Lightning. Maybe he could but chose not to or never had a reason for it. There is no rule that it has to come out of your hand.

 

[paphioland]

The whole abstract argument of mythical force potential and environment and honing your talent made for interesting what ifs. If whatever the force wants can happen it ruins the interesting what if causality of the situations.

 

[paphioland]

The interesting question I always had was did the emperor know anakin was coming and let windu defeat him? Was that a masterful plan or did he cunningly utilize a fortuitous situation when it presented itsself. Windu was a master light saber wielder. Maybe as good as yoda. His knowledge and connection with the force was less than yoda and emperor but he could have fairly beat him in a light saber dual. Especially since he channeled both light and dark sides of the force when dueling.