Okay now I shall step off my soap box. Done now.
:clap:
Well said.
Now can you please repeat that?
Species Versus Hybrids?
- Thread starter Carkin
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:clap:
Well said.
Now can you please repeat that?
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I have to agree, we kill more plants in private collections than samples spread to other growers.
polyantha
Well-Known Member
I think that Roth was right when he told me that they are mislabelled. I compared the leafs under the microscope with my other multis. They are very close to my kolos. So I think it should be kolo or something with kolo in it.
My conditions for the kolos are not very good. I dont know why but they are not growing normally. Perhaps it is something with the substrate? Kolos and platys are problematic for me. Only one platyphyllum seedling shows the massive leafs and grows like weed. It is interesting that all the other paphs are in perfect condition. The anitum adductum and randsii are good and the kolos not. Strange thing! Probably I should try a different substrate. With more CaCO3 or whatever... Never heard that kolos need a different culture than a standard multi.
emydura
Well-Known Member
I agree with you 100% Leo. I grow a lot of species but I don't see any link between growing species and their conservation. In fact it could be argued that it is the obsessed species growers who are partly responsible for the decline of many species. You only have to see how newly found species are quickly collected to the point of extinction.
You are correct in saying there is a farily high turnover rate in a collection.
Who knows what the future will hold. Fads come and go. Orchid growing appears to be on the wane now let alone in 500 years time. By then people could be growing entirely different things. The only way to conserve species is to protect them in their natural habitat. While ever they are dependent on humans for survival they are as good as extinct.
You are correct in saying there is a farily high turnover rate in a collection.
Who knows what the future will hold. Fads come and go. Orchid growing appears to be on the wane now let alone in 500 years time. By then people could be growing entirely different things. The only way to conserve species is to protect them in their natural habitat. While ever they are dependent on humans for survival they are as good as extinct.
SlipperFan
Addicted
Interesting conversation, this thread. Thanks, Carkin for posing that question.
When I moved into my greenhouse two years ago this December, I had about 400 plants and thought that was more than plenty. Now I have over 600 and I can't seem to restrain myself from acquiring more. I don't have any delusions that I am saving species or even rare hybrids. But I do have many really nice plants, and my concern is what happens to my plants when I am no longer able to care for them? Species and hybrids alike.
Stone
Well-Known Member
I think about that too Dot (although hopefully its many years away) But there will come a time for all of us when we must let them all go (to good homes) and wave bye bye:sob:
AS for the species v hybrid thing, I just can't understand the concept of finding a rare and beautiful flower in the wild which has taken hundreds of thousands of years to evolve, ripping it out of the ground and trying to ''improve'' it. Yes its part of the human need to express itself, but I also see it as a kind of...dare I say...arrogance where humans continually place themselves above nature rather than a part of it which is actually the case. Look at how we treat animals and the rest of the natural enviroment.
JUST SPEAKING IN VERY GENERAL TERMS HERE!!
Now.. after opening that can of worms, I have to say that hybrids (for better or worse) are a part of everyday life. Most of the vegetables we consume are hybrids and my garden is full of hybrid shrubs and perrenials. But I like to keep orchids in a special ''pure'' and ''natural'' state where so much of everything else in life is ''artificial''. It just makes me feel good..
I am under no illusions either that I'm conserving species. In fact ALL orchid growers are in some part resposible for their demise in the wild. The local folk look at them as we look at dandelions until we tell them that they are marketable. And yes there are many hybrids with attractive flowers but if you're after beauty only why would you grow both? There are so many hybrids now that surpass species in size, color, shape, vigour. In the early days orchid growers first grew only species because that was what was available. When hybrids came about, many threw out their species. But there were still a couple of people about like me who thought ''hybrids are a waste of beautiful flowers'' I think its a pity that the hybrid idea is creeping into speces breeding now too. Example: If a Paph leucochilum is not so perfectly round that you can't make out where the sepals end and the petals begin, well then it's not perfect. All I want is a nice leucochilum.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Pssst! Over here! :ninja:
emydura
Well-Known Member
You can say the same thing about species. After several generations, most species are bigger, better shaped, better coloured and grow and flower easier than those from the wild. Are you also opposed to the human improvement of species?
The human species ability to leave their nomadic lifestyle to grow crops and domesticate animals is what has made us the most successful species on the planet. Otherwise we would still be living in caves.
The Orchid Boy
Well-Known Member
Another reason I grow species is I'm young enough to see many generations of slower growing orchids grow up. I'd like to make my own hybrids with the species I have. I think it'll be fun.
I never was under an illusion that I was saving species. I thought just maybe somehow, someday I could contribute something like seeds to Troy Meyers Conservatory or something. I know there is probably only 1 in a trillion chance I will actually help "save species" but like I and others have said, I like orchids in their natural state. I'd grow them mounted if I could but it isn't humid enough.
I never was under an illusion that I was saving species. I thought just maybe somehow, someday I could contribute something like seeds to Troy Meyers Conservatory or something. I know there is probably only 1 in a trillion chance I will actually help "save species" but like I and others have said, I like orchids in their natural state. I'd grow them mounted if I could but it isn't humid enough.
JeanLux
Well-Known Member
I came to orchids because of these large flowered white or pink catt hybrids some 40 + years ago! On very special occasions I offered them as cut flowers to my mother and later to my going-to-be wife Triny!
Then being married and having done some rather exp. excursion into the world of bonsai, I came back to those lovely catt hybrids, esp. because I now had a friend working in a nursery where they had some hundreds of them. And of course got some of them and got infected! The following years I bought mainly species, but also hybrids from lots of different genera! And of course killed a lot of them! Then I realized that maybe it would be more realistic to limit the diversity of genera: mainly to catt species, but always some hybrids again, and later (because of the influence here) to slippers: again mostly species but for besseae or armeniacum hybrids (only as example) was not able to resist aquiering some!
En résumé, I believe in species as well as in hybrids, but for a limited number of genera, colorful, and if possible compact growers !!
Jean
Then being married and having done some rather exp. excursion into the world of bonsai, I came back to those lovely catt hybrids, esp. because I now had a friend working in a nursery where they had some hundreds of them. And of course got some of them and got infected! The following years I bought mainly species, but also hybrids from lots of different genera! And of course killed a lot of them! Then I realized that maybe it would be more realistic to limit the diversity of genera: mainly to catt species, but always some hybrids again, and later (because of the influence here
) to slippers: again mostly species but for besseae or armeniacum hybrids (only as example) was not able to resist aquiering some!En résumé, I believe in species as well as in hybrids, but for a limited number of genera, colorful, and if possible compact growers !!
Jean
If you try you can increase the odds to 1 in 1. You may or may not be able to save species by yourself but if you try you will be successful in helping.
If you try hard enough you may turn out to be the 1 in a trillion.
Your interest in the purity of natural species is the seed to saving them.
Carkin
Well-Known Member
You are very welcome! Thank you so much for your replies!!! I have been reading them ALL with great interest. I have really enjoyed "picking your brains"! :rollhappy:
Stone
Well-Known Member
cattmad
Well-Known Member
How long has a crocodile been around for and which is the most successful?[/QUOTE]
Are you proposing we start eating each other and our young?
Are you proposing we start eating each other and our young?
NYEric
Well-Known Member
The crocodile can not destroy the environment of humans.
Yes, everytime I read about them attacking a school bus driver or mugging another child for their sneakers.
ants seems to be much more successful a genera to me than humans. disease agents that are considered to be 'successful' are ones that only mildly bother their host; humans are far and away much beyond that state for bothering themselves, others and everything around them including each other. the few that are benign to a large degree are largely overwhelmed by the rest. what crocodile or anything else is interested in 'pride' and 'power' over all of the other crocodiles, fish, alligators, hippos etc? people do figuratively 'eat their young' and everything else.... not trying to get into moral issues to a large degree, but abortions are basically 'eating young', to a much worse degree and intent. what crocodile tells all the other ones underneath them in their river, that you can only have one new croc, and all others must die, and reinforce this mandate? not saying that having tons of crocs in the river is either good or bad, just pointing out a questionable thing
I can see this maybe getting heated, and is not my intention to stir....
I can see this maybe getting heated, and is not my intention to stir....
SlipperFan
Addicted
I don't know that I want to have ants as my role model. Last night, we watched a program about Honey Pot Ants. They were amazing, but they also ate competing colonies.
Sorry, Charles. I hardly think you can compare abortion to "eating young."
Sorry, Charles. I hardly think you can compare abortion to "eating young."
The Orchid Boy
Well-Known Member
People do the same as honey pot ants (in a way). Just look at history and how the world powers came to be so powerful (with the exception of a few). The Romans and Assyrians used force, brute, and scare tactics to conquer everything they could.
Abortion and eating young also has some similarities. The parent or non-parent decides to destroy the young and the young can't help it but the young are destroyed fast.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
It's amazing that with all the human on human killing and violence we are still the fastest increasing species on the planet!!
