NYEric
Well-Known Member
I've personally seen about 8 PK crosses. When you see them you think, "Wow, that's big!". When they become common besseae hybrids may be forgotten. 
Phrag.kovachii x Living Fire
- Thread starter tenman
- Start date
Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:
wonderlen3000
Well-Known Member
Woww this the best of the cross i have seen....great color.
likespaphs
some call me brian
...When they become common besseae hybrids may be forgotten.
not if you've got anything to say about it...
:rollhappy:
nice color
O
Orchidzrule
Guest
I agree with likespaphs--not if NYEric has anything to say about it. However, I would go further and definitely argue besseae and its hybrids are needed to bring out the best in kovachii hybrids.
Phrag kovachii is huge, and the color is impressive. I personally love the fuzziness of the flowers. Beyond that, it really doesn't have a lot going for it. The petals are an awkward shape and their size is out of all proportion to the rest of the flower, especially to the dorsal. Moreover, most of them lose what form they do have by reflexing after being open for a few days--I realize there are a few that are superior in this respect.
The besseae hybrids are mostly tweaks of an already great flower in the species. They are not hugely superior to the species. By contrast, I like many of the kovachii hybrids much better than kovachii because they have much better form than the species. Unfortunately, thanks to exuberant judges who award 94 points (thankfully not the whole team) to kovachii at shows, they will never get AOS awards that properly reflect the improvement over the species. However, I'm digressing. Kovachii hybrids are frequently a big improvement over the species. And why are the hybrids better? I will argue because of the besseae hybrid influence. In a way, it's ironic--I like schlimii and fischeri better than besseae, but I acknowledge besseae's wonderful contribution to Phrag interest. I predict in 50 years from now, besseae will be acknowledged as the plant that revolutionized Phrag growing. (Unless there is yet another wonderful Phrag still to be discovered in South America, of course.)
toddybear
Awarded Stud
Stunning!
Silvan
Multiflorals assassin
Intense color. You must me be very excited!! Congrats!
Have you been giving it cool temperature?
Have you been giving it cool temperature?
Updated pic
Not really. It's up where summers are warm to hot; winter night temps get down to 55F.
The flower is now over 6 inches across; here is an updated pic.
Intense color. You must me be very excited!! Congrats!
Have you been giving it cool temperature?
Not really. It's up where summers are warm to hot; winter night temps get down to 55F.
The flower is now over 6 inches across; here is an updated pic.
Attachments
NYEric
Well-Known Member
A real beauty!
IMHO- I think Orchidzrule has hit the nail on the head. Beyond shear size, Pk brings very little to it's second generation hybrids. By the time we finally breed out the negative characteristis of Pk, we'll probably have really nice hybrids, bright colors, and about the size of a good Jason Fischer.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I hope not. I like Pk size and shapes. I just wish someone could make hybrids to retain a similar color as the species.
Phrag-Plus
Well-Known Member
Very nice!
Kevin
Well-Known Member
I too, think that Orchidzrule made some good points, but I would have to say that there really are no 'positive' or 'negative' characterisitcs of any species - only what pleases or displeases us at a particular time. As time has shown, tastes do change, and they may change in the future again, so that what we see as 'good' now, might not cut it years from now. If the goal of making Phrag. hybrids is to make perfectly flat, round flowers, then yes, a huge, floppy flower will have negative characteristics, but if you are looking for a huge flower with shape and colour not previously seen in the genus, then you have positive characteristics. I do think that besseae is an excellent species on it's own and as a parent in hybridizing, but I also think it has been greatly overused. I would personally like to see more breeding done in Phrags without any besseae used at all. That is not to say that besseae should not still be used in breeding, but just that there is a whole world of Phrag hybridizing that needs to be explored more. I personally like the '3D flowers' (ones with twists and turns in them) and colours other than red or orange as well as, and sometimes more than, the ones that are flat and round. I think Phrag. kovachii is an amazing species and I would love to own one and be able to bloom it. I think it has potential in hybridizing to make flowers that are large in size and have unique colouration not seen previously in Phrag hybrids. Who knows - we may end up getting some kovachii hybrids that could rival Cattleyas as corsage orchids back in the day! Is that a negative?
Orchidzrule may be right by saying that "besseae will be acknowledged as the plant that revolutionized Phrag growing." but I don't agree that kovachii "really doesn't have a lot going for it". Besides colour, shape and size, what does besseae have going for it? kovachii is just different - that doesn't make it bad.
C
Chuck
Guest
Well put, Kevin. I too like the "3-d" flowers which includes most caudatum-type hybrids. Besseae is a wonderful flower and it makes a great parent producing many round, flat offspring. Expecting that kovachii will do the same may not be reasonable. Most of it hybrids have hooded dorsal sepals and "floppy" petals. Once you accept these as 'normal' characteristics rather than faults many of these flowers become, in my eyes, beautiful rather than flawed.
Last edited by a moderator:
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Et tu Brute!? :sob:
Last edited:
SlipperFan
Addicted
Hear, hear, Kevin!
Phrag-Plus
Well-Known Member
I'm agree with Kevin and Chuck,
When I first saw P. kovachii I saw the potential for future big branching plants with numerous huge coloured flower. What a dream! And a goal! I’m working for that to happen. And I don’t mind if the petals are waving or not this is a Phrag characteristic.
I do like 3d and green flowers, S. Apprentice is still my favourite hybrid ever, I do like it’s hybrid too for the flower count and vitality. Don’t ask why P. Les Varines is the best kovachii hybrid for me yet …
When I first saw P. kovachii I saw the potential for future big branching plants with numerous huge coloured flower. What a dream! And a goal! I’m working for that to happen. And I don’t mind if the petals are waving or not this is a Phrag characteristic.
I do like 3d and green flowers, S. Apprentice is still my favourite hybrid ever, I do like it’s hybrid too for the flower count and vitality. Don’t ask why P. Les Varines is the best kovachii hybrid for me yet …
Beyond the flower one positive aspect that is not mentioned about kovachii is the great form of the plant. The growth habit, leaf shape and overall how the foliage is carried makes the plant itself a nice thing to look at, even without flowers.
ah, good point! kovachii could be used to take away the habit besseae hybrids have of climbing out of the pot
O
Orchidzrule
Guest
Nice to see some discussion on this! And perhaps the way I worded it was a trifle too harsh i.e. "...doesn't have a lot going for it."
I agree and disagree with just about all points made. I will argue that petals that reflex after being open for a couple of days look as though they are dying, or at least dehydrated. It's the first thing I would discard in hybrids that inherited the characteristic. At the same time, I am a little saddened by the insistence on round, flat flowers by orchid breeders, judges & fanciers.
I would also say size is not the only thing kovachii can contribute to its offspring. The color is in-your-face stunning. Yeah, I admit I like pink phrags better than orange ones, in spite of my admiration for besseae and its contributions to phrag hybrids. And, besseae is most emphatically not a true red--if it were, its alba form would be white, rather than yellow. Some of its hybrids are very close to true red, however. If it has been overused, it's because the color it has was so different from the known phrags, which were largely similar. Let's face it, phrag species are not nearly as varied as paph species.
Bottom line, I'm not sure if I actually *like* kovachii, but I admire it immensely and eagerly look forward to seeing its hybrids progress and develop. Dare I say "Yay, kovachii crosses!" :clap:
I agree and disagree with just about all points made. I will argue that petals that reflex after being open for a couple of days look as though they are dying, or at least dehydrated. It's the first thing I would discard in hybrids that inherited the characteristic. At the same time, I am a little saddened by the insistence on round, flat flowers by orchid breeders, judges & fanciers.
I would also say size is not the only thing kovachii can contribute to its offspring. The color is in-your-face stunning. Yeah, I admit I like pink phrags better than orange ones, in spite of my admiration for besseae and its contributions to phrag hybrids. And, besseae is most emphatically not a true red--if it were, its alba form would be white, rather than yellow. Some of its hybrids are very close to true red, however. If it has been overused, it's because the color it has was so different from the known phrags, which were largely similar. Let's face it, phrag species are not nearly as varied as paph species.
Bottom line, I'm not sure if I actually *like* kovachii, but I admire it immensely and eagerly look forward to seeing its hybrids progress and develop. Dare I say "Yay, kovachii crosses!" :clap:
