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Paph Villosum

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BrucherT

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Check out the attachment to my post #5 - even if most of the article is in German, you will see very good and clearly defined photos of different varieties and colour forms of villosum, categorized by well estimed botanists!
Now who’s going to tell Sam?
 

BrucherT

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everybody here is getting the name, right?
laichaunum, not laichaunense. It confuses me too.
 

Guldal

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everybody here is getting the name, right?
laichaunum, not laichaunense. It confuses me too.
I think the confusion stems from the fact, that plants are sometimes sold under the name var. laichauense. Lai châu is a vietnamese province - and people might have thought, that the name ought to parralel the name for the Paph. coming from the county Malipo in China, namely P. malipoense.
Maybe the difference is due to the one plant coming from Vietnam, the other from China - i.e. based on the two different languages of the country of origin? Maybe it's because the one comes from a province, the other from a county? Or maybe it simply became var. laichaunum, because that was what the botanists, that described and validly published it, decided to call it?!
 
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Hakone

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Check out the attachment to my post #5 - even if most of the article is in German, you will see very good and clearly defined photos of different varieties and colour forms of villosum, categorized by well estimed botanists!
unfortunately the botanists haven't seen all of the varieties. Were they in Lai Chau?

Lai Chau , paphis sell


 
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Guldal

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to me laichaunum = annamense
I have just for once broken my vow to ignore Hakone's posts, in spite of his often beautiful and interesting photos.
His posts in this thread is an example of the often rather indecirapherable comments, that made me take my 'vow of silence'. The above quote raises some questions: why is v. laichaunum for him identical with v. annamense? And has he bothered at all to open the article in #5? If so, why does he disagree with the botanists?

Another of his comments might point in the direction, that he didn't open it, as he pours forth:
unfortunately the botanists haven't seen all of the varieties. Were they in Lai Chau[?]
I would say, that there is a fair chance they were there - 3 of the 4 co-authors have, I would say, suspiciously, vietnamese sounding names: Nguyen Hoang Tuan, Nguyen Son Hai and Chu Xuan Canh (known in these pages for his fabulous onsite photos and his own, excellently cultivated plants). 2 of them resides in Hanoi, and 1 in Viet Tri city in the Phu Tho province, according to the article's colophon.
 

Hakone

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My answer :

1/- And has he bothered at all to open the article in #5? If so, why does he disagree with the botanists?:

- The botanists weren't there ( Laichen / Sinh Ho )

2/- I would say, suspiciously, vietnamese sounding names: Nguyen Hoang Tuan, Nguyen Son Hai and Chu Xuan Canh (known in these pages for his fabulous onsite photos and his own, excellently cultivated plants). 2 of them resides in Hanoi, and 1 in Viet Tri city in the Phu Tho province, according to the article's colophon.

- I know these 3 people. What do you mean by that ?

3/-Check out the attachment to my post #5 - even if most of the article is in German, you will see very good and clearly defined photos of different varieties and colour forms of villosum, categorized by well estimed botanists!

- I've read this article and don't see any differences .. If you see the differences Annamense vs Laichaunum please show me.
 

Phred

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3/-Check out the attachment to my post #5 - even if most of the article is in German, you will see very good and clearly defined photos of different varieties and colour forms of villosum, categorized by well estimed botanists!

- I've read this article and don't see any differences .. If you see the differences Annamense vs Laichaunum please show me.
You refer to the article in your above post at #5. You talk about “The clearly defined photos of different varieties and color forms of villosum, categorized by well esteemed botanists”.
If I’m not understanding you correctly let me know... you say you don’t see the difference between villosum var anamense and villosum var laichaunum. The “clearly defined photos of different varieties and color forms” show a distinct different in the dorsal between the two.
First: villosum var anamense
278A6E7F-DB9C-497C-9487-84071A93DB81.jpeg
Second: villosum var laichaunum
731E24DB-28C3-4F3F-9B70-5F2B1FB6CB56.jpeg
 

Phred

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If my translator is correct there are also differences between the two varieties in the written descriptions:

anamense dorsal sepal:
obovate broadly ovate to ovoid, white with a broad chestnut-brown central part
laichaunum dorsal sepal:
round, pointed at the top, notched at the bottom, no points, stalks, middle part of brown wings, faded upwards, veins brown and wider, in the middle

anamense petal:
obovate, spatula-shaped, brownish gold at the narrow point, lavender-brown markings at the base, narrow in the middle
laichaunum petal:
narrow spatulate, lavender in the upper half, lemon yellow in the lower part, without a white border
 

Phred

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Now who’s going to tell Sam?
I’ll tell Sam... lol. I told Jason Fischer a couple years ago. I haven’t checked to see if he changed it in his system or not. I would think you could get a better price for a newly identified variety... at least initially.
 
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Guldal

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If my translator is correct there are also differences between the two varieties in the written descriptions:

anamense dorsal sepal:
obovate broadly ovate to ovoid, white with a broad chestnut-brown central part
laichaunum dorsal sepal:
round, pointed at the top, notched at the bottom, no points, stalks, middle part of brown wings, faded upwards, veins brown and wider, in the middle

anamense petal:
obovate, spatula-shaped, brownish gold at the narrow point, lavender-brown markings at the base, narrow in the middle
laichaunum petal:
narrow spatulate, lavender in the upper half, lemon yellow in the lower part, without a white border
Exactly! 🙂
 

Hakone

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You refer to the article in your above post at #5. You talk about “The clearly defined photos of different varieties and color forms of villosum, categorized by well esteemed botanists”.
If I’m not understanding you correctly let me know... you say you don’t see the difference between villosum var anamense and villosum var laichaunum. The “clearly defined photos of different varieties and color forms” show a distinct different in the dorsal between the two.
First: villosum var anamense
View attachment 23601
Second: villosum var laichaunum
View attachment 23602

The “clearly defined photos of different varieties and color forms” show a distinct different in the dorsal between the two.

My answer :

the color forms and the dorsal petal does not play an important role . The Staminode plays a big role. A number of variants of Villosum have been described. All of them differ only slightly from the " normals " forms. See # 14 and # 16 all these paphis are villosum in Lai Chau . It also depends on when the photos are taken, fully flowered or just open.
 

Phred

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The “clearly defined photos of different varieties and color forms” show a distinct different in the dorsal between the two.

My answer :

the color forms and the dorsal petal does not play an important role . The Staminode plays a big role. A number of variants of Villosum have been described. All of them differ only slightly from the " normals " forms. See # 14 and # 16 all these paphis are villosum in Lai Chau . It also depends on when the photos are taken, fully flowered or just open.
The shape of the dorsal is different not just the color. The shape of the petals are different. Also if the staminode is much different you're heading in the direction of a different species.
 

GuRu

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unfortunately the botanists haven't seen all of the varieties. Were they in Lai Chau?.....
.....- The botanists weren't there ( Laichen / Sinh Ho ).......
Tai, I follow this discussion with great attention and I know you are of Vietnamese ancestry, but I also know, you've been living for many years here in Germany. So my question is: Did you ever visit Lai Châu before and did you see all these P. villosum varieties there in situ? Or do you discuss here only by 'hearsay'?

The shape of the dorsal is different not just the color. The shape of the petals are different. Also if the staminode is much different you're heading in the direction of a different species.
Fred, that's completely logical.
 

Hakone

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every year i was in Vietnam on an expedition. There are many forums where people sell their Paphis. You can see so many varieties.

exemplar:

Paphiopedilum Forum Sinh Ho - Lai Chau



Paphiopedilum Forum ( Süd - Zentral - Nord Viet Nam )


Paphiopedilum Forum Da Lat



total 10 Forens
 
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