Most difficult Paph species?

[The Mutant]

I was discussing this topic with another Paph-o-maniac on the Swedish orchid forum. This other member thought I had my work cut out for myself by getting as many roths as I have (yup, many for us newbie, windowsill growers) since they are so difficult. I replied that I don't think they are that difficult, at most they are slow growers, and, if I've understood correctly, some can be tricky to bloom. I've not, however, gotten the impression that they are one of the most difficult of the Paph species.

What do you more experienced growers have to say? Is my assumption right, or is it wrong?

Which Paph species do you consider being the most difficult one, both to grow and to bloom?

I would really like to know what you have to say.

 

[eggshells]

The common misconception of "roths are hard to bloom" is due to the fact that it used to be. However, the line breeding of this species have made it easier to bloom and also affordable.

I would say that the hardest is adductum and anitum for me. But not that hard as you said it is mostly a slow grower. It's just not very forgiving. Its more like you have waited so long for a couple of leaves to grow big and one little mistake on culture and you lose two leaves.

 

[Justin]

rothschildianum is pretty easy to grow, and the newer crosses are quite easy to bloom. The only trouble i have ever had with roths is trying to establish smaller divisions, they can be very difficult if the division is too small and will die.

 

[valenzino]

Agreee with the other comments about roth....
The most difficult species to grow are probably Paph. anitum in the "multiflower" group...
And probably Paph papuanum and wenthwortianum...

 

[NYEric]

I dont think any Paph is hard to grow. There are slower and faster growers, and those that can take years to flower but that's part of the process. If you can match the conditions the plants need to be successful you can grow anything.

 

[The Mutant]

Seems I have the right idea about roths then, that's good to know.

Agreee with the other comments about roth....
The most difficult species to grow are probably Paph. anitum in the "multiflower" group...
And probably Paph papuanum and wenthwortianum...

Oooh, sooo beautiful! :smitten:

I would love both a papaunum and a wenthwortianum... But since you don't mention their pal, violascens, it means I might stand a chance growing mine then.

I dont think any Paph is hard to grow. There are slower and faster growers, and those that can take years to flower but that's part of the process. If you can match the conditions the plants need to be successful you can grow anything.

So in other words I should rephrase myself; which Paph species is the most demanding when it comes to its conditions (this sentence seems so odd, but I can't think of a way to rephrase it... I hope you understand what I mean anyway) ? :wink:

 

[Rick]

I think this one has popped up several times over the years.

I think it ends up that the "easisest to kill" are the south Pacific barbata types like papuanum, wentworthianum, viloacea, mastersianum, sangii.....

Folks tend to wipe them out left and right, but they are not typically slow growing.

Sometimes we here about folks having problems with some of the Vietnamese cliff dwellers emersonii, and hangianum.

In many ways the things that are tough to keep alive are also pretty rare in collections. So that's why you don't find lots of growers with big multigrowth sangii, papuanum, emersonii... Its not that they are new to science or unpopular/ugly.

Interestingly I've had problems with keeping purpuratum and sukhakulii for much more than a few years before K lite. But since I've been growing there have been times when "everyone has them" then all of a sudden "no one has them" . They seem to be fast growers and easy to bloom, but also easy to kill.

Adductum has been mentioned a couple times now, but they are very hard to obtain in the first place, and not bred in great quantity by those that have them. I wouldn't be surprised as more try a low K (high Ca/Mg) feeding strategy that soon there won't be any "difficult" paph species anymore.

 

[The Mutant]

Thanks for your reply Rick.

All of a sudden I feel a bit worried since I have both mastersianum and violascens...

Oh well, hopefully I'll be able to grow them, I AM using K-lite after all, so it's not like it's completely hopeless.

I'll repeat what all of you have said to this other Paph-nut so she knows too, I must share my newly attained knowledge after all.

 

[emydura]

Yes, I find roths pretty straight forward to grow, especially if you have a larger plant. I'd recommend you get the largest plants you can afford from Sam.

 

[reivilos]

I'd say bellatulum alba and insigne sanderianum.
I find bellatulum alba quite erwinia-prone (everyone knows that), slow growing and very prone to bud blast.
Insigne sanderianum is a fast grower, very easy to bloom but very very very erwinia-prone.

 

[Rick]

I'd say bellatulum alba and insigne sanderianum.
I find bellatulum alba quite erwinia-prone (everyone knows that), slow growing and very prone to bud blast.
Insigne sanderianum is a fast grower, very easy to bloom but very very very erwinia-prone.

The Klite research suggests that plants grown low K/high Ca/Mg are resistant to Erwinia.

So far this is panning out to be true for my collection. (For new growth and seedlings). Calcium is not readily labile in plant tissues, so old growth can still be susceptible.

 

[Cheyenne]

I think alot of the species that are hard we just don't know that much about there conditions, or the right information. Like adductum and anitum, I had a problem with them at first. Then researched a little more found out they like alot of shade, alot!!! They like a more acidic media and respond better to ammonical fert. Now I haven't lost one in years. Emersonii, hangianum and company, pretty much all the parvi's experience very different seasons. You get that right and they are pretty easy and fast growing. You don't get it right and they do nothing and slowly die. I find the hardest plants are the ones that are slower to get going because there is more time to do something wrong. That said, for some reason I find the barbata and or maudiae types the hardest, I am missing something there. Other people can grow enormous plants on a window sill with multiple spikes.

 

[Rick]

I think alot of the species that are hard we just don't know that much about there conditions, or the right information. Like adductum and anitum, I had a problem with them at first. Then researched a little more found out they like alot of shade, alot!!! They like a more acidic media and respond better to ammonical fert. Now I haven't lost one in years. Emersonii, hangianum and company, pretty much all the parvi's experience very different seasons. You get that right and they are pretty easy and fast growing. You don't get it right and they do nothing and slowly die. I find the hardest plants are the ones that are slower to get going because there is more time to do something wrong. That said, for some reason I find the barbata and or maudiae types the hardest, I am missing something there. Other people can grow enormous plants on a window sill with multiple spikes.

The high potassium feed using RO or rain water, is almost universal paph trauma. No where in the environment of any paph species (or just about any orchid for that matter) is potassium present in concentrations greater than the calcium and magnesium. So if you are trying to replicate nature, then the chemical environment in the root zone is something you are way off target on if you are using a high K fert. Also, when fertilizing at 100 ppm N, you are still offering the plant more in a single feeding than it would experience over months to a full year. The giant barbata types on windowsills often get little or no fert, and tap water (full of soluble Ca/Mg and virtually no K). For some reason because we plant people think of fertilizer as food, we think that it can go to our plants in unlimited quantities without any issues. However, inorganic fertilizers are really salts and not food, and really work under the rules of toxicology.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Back in my early days of orchid growing, there was a great series of articles in the AOS Bulletin (1985) by Ned Nash about growing paphs...became essential information for my growing attempts. His last article was about "difficult" paphs...and he divided them up between difficult to bloom/easy to grow and difficult to grow/easy to bloom. Of course, that meant multi's in the first category and brachy's in the latter category. Its been quite a few years since then, and I've been able to refine the generalizations and add others, for my conditions. It's really mixed within groups. Barbata types include the easy (sukhakulii) the moderate (callosum, barbatum, lawrencianum) and the difficult (violascens, mastersianum). For this group, It's definitely growth and survival. Blooming is very easy if they stay alive. (In fact, I'd extend that to say the species are easy to bloom...hybrids usually are, but the mix of genes lead to some clones that are very difficult to bloom..the species are more consistent.) In fact, I would hazard to guess that if you can keep a barbata paph alive long enough, blooming is almost certain. Same with brachy's, but while brachy's are easy to get to spike, some are hard to bloom....haven't gotten a bellatulum bloom in years. While concolor is frequently described as the easiest brachy, I'd say niveum is easier. One thing is for sure- bellatulum has been the hardest. From what I have seen, brachy's are among the easiest paphs to get to spike, but bellatulum (and possibly thaianum, don't really know) are very prone to blasting, while the others are easier to bring to bloom. Aside from bellatulum, they are easier to grow than frequently given credit for. But....not long lived overall. The insigne group is all over the place...ranging from easy bloom/easy growth (insigne...including sanderianum), easy bloom/less easy growth (villosum, gratrixianum, spicerianum) to easy growth/hard to bloom (henryanum) and simply hard all around (charlesworthii). Timing of bloom is a problem....insigne, villosum, etc spike in the fall, so blooms usually make it. But helenae and barbigerum spike in summer, and frequently, if not usually blast because of the heat. I have high hopes for my spiking helenae now........Multi's are over the place. The lowii group is mostly easy, with haynaldianum easiest for both growth and bloom, lowii maybe even easier to bloom but harder to keep alive, and parishii (and dianthum?) hard for both. (Of the group, dianthum is the only one I have never bloomed.) I find the roth group very problematical. Not easy to grow or bloom. Philipinense is easy to grow, very hardy, rarely blooms. Roth, sanderianum, etc...do not thrive even when they live for years. The praestans group is easier for both growth and bloom, but still tends to commit suicide after a point. Cochlo's are generally easy, but have cranky individuals. I've had primulinums that refused to bloom, others that were easy. Parvi's....don't get me started. All over the place. Original delanatii was hard....modern delanatii is among the easiest paphs to both grow and bloom.
Armeniacum and micranthum....not easy to grow, but not difficult overall. Very difficult to bloom. Malipoense...easier to grow, very hard to bloom. Emersonii????? (and I believe hangianum) Arghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Slow as ****
to grow, but hardy.....after many years, easy to bloom. Followed by death the next year. Any pattern? I find it interesting that some of the hardest to keep alive (mastersianum, violascens, some brachy's) are still so easy to bloom. It may be that their constitution can't handle both growth and bloom except under the most ideal conditions.

 

[Cheyenne]

The high potassium feed using RO or rain water, is almost universal paph trauma. No where in the environment of any paph species (or just about any orchid for that matter) is potassium present in concentrations greater than the calcium and magnesium. So if you are trying to replicate nature, then the chemical environment in the root zone is something you are way off target on if you are using a high K fert. Also, when fertilizing at 100 ppm N, you are still offering the plant more in a single feeding than it would experience over months to a full year. The giant barbata types on windowsills often get little or no fert, and tap water (full of soluble Ca/Mg and virtually no K). For some reason because we plant people think of fertilizer as food, we think that it can go to our plants in unlimited quantities without any issues. However, inorganic fertilizers are really salts and not food, and really work under the rules of toxicology.

Nope, mix in about one third well water with a good amount of cal and mag from close to a limestone quarry. Feed at around 50 maybe 60 ppm every two weeks, winter sometimes longer, usually with msu or klite other times its cal nitrate or mag sulfate or seaweed extract. I personally always thought people use to much fertilizer. Plants can make there own energy from the environment (light, oxygen, etc). Fert is not plant food but only to supply the plant with nutrients to make more compounds and sugars. I especially don't like to use alot of artificial fert, I like a worm tea or nitrogen fixing microbes more. The problem is not to much fert and definitely not to much K.

 

[Stone]

An interesting thread! Eric, do I notice a pattern in that many of the pahs you are finding difficult experience cool to cold conditions in habitat ( charls., bell., vill.,micranth.,armen., emers. etc). Are your temps too warm or not enough drop at night? Just a thought....
But generally I agree with Rick that overfeeding has and continues to be a big issue when it comes to success or otherwise.
It is very hard for newcommers - especially - to have it sink in that you just don't have to feed most orchids (particularly slow growers) very much at all.
But even after so many years of growing, I STILL find myself thinking ''I had better feed this thing, I wouldn't want it to starve....and maybe it would do even better if I give it a bit extra''....
Its a difficult thing to resist!
Its also funny that I/we tend to give our newest aquisitions too much love until we get something new and that after we begin to ''forget'' the other ones, they start to improve:rollhappy:
#1 mistake I would say that we all make:
Feeding something that isn't doing well when we should be feeding those that are, and giving nothing but water to those that aren't.

 

[Rick]

We've had a similar debate over whether or not blooming represents the epitome of health and good growing or a last ditch effort of a plant on its last legs in poor growing conditions. From what I've been experiencing and working with this nutrition thing over the years, I think that both concepts may be viable indicators of health or distress. I think it also led to the practice of snipping spikes on young plants (which I think is more of a tail wagging dog type of concept). I think health and ease of growing should be prioritized on the vegetative portion of the plant before worrying about whether or not it flowers.

Also as I spend more time pollinating, producing seed, and growing stuff out of flask, I can see that certain stages are more sensitive to shortcomings in culture, rather than having truly different requirements.

On the one hand, yes there are 30,000 different orchid species across the planet, but I seem to be able to get 300 or so to do OK to great together in 144 square ft of space, getting watered and fed the same thing. I'd like to think that I have them situated in their own little microhabitat, getting their own special needs taken care of, but when I put probes and other measuring devices around the GH, the sum of conditions is probably about 90% the same for every plant in there.

 

[Rick]

Its a difficult thing to resist!

Feeding something that isn't doing well when we should be feeding those that are, and giving nothing but water to those that aren't.

I know. So now when I get the urge to feed I go and look at the 50 ft poplar tree that I planted 12 years ago when it was only 1 ft high. It has never been fed or watered (other than rain). It's bloomed fantastically the last three springs. If the tree can grow 50 ft of biomass in 12 years, then why should I worry about feeding a 12" tall paph?

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

"Are your temps too warm or not enough drop at night? Just a thought...."
That is actually the least of my problems. From April through Oct. my plants are outdoors...warm growers beginning of May to end of Sept. Coolest growers come in in November. My cool growers are kept in an unheated room, where winter days will be in the 70's, nights in the 50's. (40's in extreme cold.) The ones in the rest of my house will drop to the low 60's at night, although the window greenhouse gets colder. So I think temperature may be the only thing I get right......

 

[abax]

I find all Paphs. easy to grow and keep the foliage looking
pristine, however, getting them to bloom is not so easy.
I only have 30 Paphs. and most are Brachys and most are
still relatively small, but generally I'm quite happy with
K-Lite, high humidity and LOTS of air movement.