K-Lite Trial Observations

[abax]

I received my K-Lite and will begin feeding on Sunday 2/6
on a weekly basis as always. After reading the jar, I'm
going to use a bit less than 1 tsp. per gallon in my Spot Shot. How does that compare with the amount per gallon
that others are using?

 

[Rick]

I received my K-Lite and will begin feeding on Sunday 2/6
on a weekly basis as always. After reading the jar, I'm
going to use a bit less than 1 tsp. per gallon in my Spot Shot. How does that compare with the amount per gallon
that others are using?

Since I'm feeding at 1/4 tsp per gal (37.5 mg/L N) then you would be feeding at 4X my present rate (unless your spot shot dilutes at >1:1).

During summer I could see myself going to 1/2 tsp/gal. But I don't think (at this time) that I would need to run up to 150 mg/L N (at a full tsp).

 

[Ray]

I targeted 75 ppm N, but just replaced my EC meter and am measuring 85 ppm, which is fine for me. That's 2.45 g/gal.

The two batches we've gotten in used different sources of mag nitrate, giving different textures and packing, so will have different bulk densities; I suggest using weight, rather than volume, to measure out your additions.

By far the safest idea is to make a concentrate of a large amount, then dilute that for use.

 

[keithrs]

That's what I did... Made 4:1, distilled water:k-lite concentrate. I have been using 1.5 tbs per gal. which is about 50 ppms N. Speaking of which..... I need to fertilize today.

 

[Rick]

I targeted 75 ppm N, but just replaced my EC meter and am measuring 85 ppm, which is fine for me. That's 2.45 g/gal.

The two batches we've gotten in used different sources of mag nitrate, giving different textures and packing, so will have different bulk densities; I suggest using weight, rather than volume, to measure out your additions.

By far the safest idea is to make a concentrate of a large amount, then dilute that for use.

I've also been making it up at 4X concentrate of what I want so that I can get a larger (and more homogenous (I hope)) scoop out of the bottle. But thats still only a full tsp. I'd really be wasting if I go much more.

Ray do you have a notion of the shelf life of a hydrated concentrate? I wouldn't feel so bad about making up even larger quanties of concentrate if I thought it would be stable in the fridge for a couple of weeks.

 

[Roth]

I've also been making it up at 4X concentrate of what I want so that I can get a larger (and more homogenous (I hope)) scoop out of the bottle. But thats still only a full tsp. I'd really be wasting if I go much more.

Ray do you have a notion of the shelf life of a hydrated concentrate? I wouldn't feel so bad about making up even larger quanties of concentrate if I thought it would be stable in the fridge for a couple of weeks.

A concentrate will not be stable more than a few hours I think...

If you have time, use this:

http://www2.lwr.kth.se/English/OurSoftware/vminteq/

It's free and really helpful.

 

[keithrs]

I have had my in a concentrate for about a month and no problems yet.... I have Peters RO in a dilution of 3:1 for over 6 months and no problems.

 

[Rick]

I have had my in a concentrate for about a month and no problems yet.... I have Peters RO in a dilution of 3:1 for over 6 months and no problems.

I wouldn't expect something like toxicity as a problem rather than degradation/volitalization (of nitrogen compounds) and oxidizing of the trace metals into worthless insoluble products.

So you may be feeding at much less than intended. Do you check nitrogen concentrations?

 

[Ray]

These are very stable inorganic and ionic chemicals. Unless there are precipitates, they are quite unlikely to change over the times within our parameters.

Put some salt into water - unless you add something else, or allow the water to evaporate, it will be stable for a very long time.

 

[keithrs]

I wouldn't expect something like toxicity as a problem rather than degradation/volitalization (of nitrogen compounds) and oxidizing of the trace metals into worthless insoluble products.

So you may be feeding at much less than intended. Do you check nitrogen concentrations?

No... Thats farther than I need to go....At this point.

 

[abax]

My Spot Shot isn't a proportioner-type. It holds 7 gals. of
solution and is applied as mixed in the tank. The fertilizer is added to the tank and used immediately. If anyone thinks 3/4 tsp. per gallon is too much, please tell me.

 

[Roth]

These are very stable inorganic and ionic chemicals. Unless there are precipitates, they are quite unlikely to change over the times within our parameters.

Put some salt into water - unless you add something else, or allow the water to evaporate, it will be stable for a very long time.

That's true, but if you put one salt like potassium phosphate or sodium chloride. With several salts, it starts to react, and you get a precipitate. If you run the K-Lite style in Visual Minteqa, you find out precipitates in concentrate solutions, salts dissociate in ions, that can recombine and give insoluble salts (precipitate). The most vicious is when the precipitate are colloidal styles, they are not the big snowflakes, but molecules or very small group of molecules, invisible to the naked eye. Though the solution can look 'clear', those ions cannot be accessed by the plants. It happens very frequently with borax and calcium nitrate in a A + B tank system as one of many examples.

 

[Ray]

Angela - you're running in the 110-115 ppm N range. Probably not too high (I used 125 with MSU for years), but many of us are running a bit lower these days.

Roth - you're absolutely right about potential "recombinant precipitation", and I have observed it myself (and that's why I now keep a more dilute stock tank), but it seems to me that in most fertilizer formulations, that does not happen to a degree that significantly affects the nutrient availability unless you store too strong of a solution for too long.

 

[Rick]

I've done some work with fertilizer concentrations of nitrate in my tox lab, and saw that at high concentrations of nitrate, a small percentage will spontaneously degrade to nitrite. Also given a small amount of the appropriate bacteria in the sample and the ammonia could be switched to nitrate in short notice (aerobic conditions) or the nitrate could be gassed off as nitrogen gas (anoxic conditions).

I would suspect under refrigeration bacterial issues could be very slow. About the same as it takes a 1/2 gal of milk to go bad maybe.

As per the metals (in trace), the edta should help keep them stable, but under aerobic conditions it wouldn't take much to see them oxidized to useless "rust" type substances over time. But I couldn't tell if we are talking days, weeks, or months. I've seen several studies on the stability of metals in EDTA and it varies dramatically per metal too.

 

[cnycharles]

As per the metals (in trace), the edta should help keep them stable, but under aerobic conditions it wouldn't take much to see them oxidized to useless "rust" type substances over time. But I couldn't tell if we are talking days, weeks, or months. I've seen several studies on the stability of metals in EDTA and it varies dramatically per metal too.

the solution pH makes a difference as well; if i'm remembering right, we had two forms of iron (or iron with two different chelating agents) and which you would use depended on the pH of the fertilizer solution it was added to

 

[abax]

Thank you again, Ray. I'll cut it back to 1/4 tsp. per gallon
at least until we see some spring weather.

 

[Rick]

the solution pH makes a difference as well; if i'm remembering right, we had two forms of iron (or iron with two different chelating agents) and which you would use depended on the pH of the fertilizer solution it was added to

pH stability may be more telling than anything else. Most of the metals tend to stay soluble at the lower pH levels we are typically shooting for.

So anyone with access to a good pH meter can put together a concentrate and log the pH over time and get a very rough idea of stability.

 

[SlipperKing]

Back to the thread at hand folk! I've picked up on a change in the roth plants only so far. Much lighter green then before tittering on yellow. I've been watering for a month at least maybe a week more with K-lite only at 75ppm in my rain water. I may have to add some Epson's back into the water?

 

[Ray]

There should be plenty om Mg in the fertilizer. So far, I have not seen anything like that on any plants.

 

[terryros]

Maybe I am one of the few in the trial growing in pure New Zealand sphagnum moss? I think I do well with this because with my modest sized collection I hand water each plant when it is the right "dryness". I also monitor the effluent from periodic pots (about 50 ml RO over the top as described by Bill Argo and Y-T Wang and others) to keep the EC and pH under control. To keep the pH from being too low (less than 5.0) I have been gently top dressing pots, as needed, with palletized dolomitic lime, which is a combination of Ca and Mg salts to provide buffer. My theoretic question is whether anyone thinks the additional Ca and Mg that comes from this could be an issue with the K-Lite fertilizer? I am afraid I couldn't help myself and am also going to be adding Ray's Kelpac in my regimen, so I now have two variables in the experiment.