Good fun and THE GAUNTLET

[orcoholic]

First, this is somewhat in good fun, but i think the nonsense about using fert at 10ppmN should be put to sleep - (and allow me to finally declare victory over all who take pleasure starving your orchids).

I think this is very bad advice and new growers who read this are being led down a road the leads directly out of the hobby - perhaps even into growing African violets

Every time we discuss it, a usual response is "in this paper....", or "what is your source".

I've posted 10 pictures of orchids that are in bloom in my greenhouse right now - as we speak. No papers, no studies, just good, sound feeding and culture.

My challenge to all you orchid starvation specialists is if you beatem, showem.

I think a fair ground rule is that you should have grown your orchids at a very low N rate for at least a couple of years. No new specimen purchases allowed. That's it.

This is my first time trying to use Photobucket, so if it doesn't work I'll try again.

Roths - 'Sam's Best' x 'Rex'


Another multifloral


Lycaste macrophylla


Aerangis leuteo-alba rhodisticta


Encyclia mariae and buds


Den. attenuatum


Laelia purpuratas - flammea and carnea

Paph. kolopakingii x philippinense alba


Paph. PEOY x philipp.


Paph. Susan Booth


Paph. roths. 'Sam's Best' x 'Rex'


This is stonei x roths. 3 spikes are showing - a fourth is on the way


I didn't worry about getting good pics of the flowers. We're just dealing with growth habit here. The leaf color looks lighter than it really is - because of the harshness of the sun I guess.

I've showed you mine. Now show me yours.

Hope to heck this works.

 

[orcoholic]

It's a miracle. It worked. Thanks to all that helped me figure out how to do this

 

[NYEric]

Nice Mike, but what are you recommending for fertilizing/feeding ratios? BTW if you have a nice Encyclia mariae, let me know. Also, I'd like a closer look at that Paph Temptation (semi album)!!

 

[Alex]

Just to be sure, you don't grow them in sun that strong, do you? You just moved them for the pictures?

 

[orcoholic]

Just to be sure, you don't grow them in sun that strong, do you? You just moved them for the pictures?

Right Alex, just took the pics in the sun.

 

[gonewild]

I expected picture #10 to be an African violet!

 

[Justin]

the roth Sam's Best x Rex is quite nice and very well grown.

 

[Marco]

Wow. Color me green. Those are awesome multis and well grown !

 

[Ozpaph]

Those plants look very healthy.

 

[AdamD]

I must admit, I've been cheating on K-lite with a high urea 20-20-20... Mostly just on my bigger multis and catasetums. Only downfall is no micros or ca/mg.

What do you feed those beasts?

 

[emydura]

Whatever your doing just keep doing it. Your plants look very healthy. That is a lovely Susan Booth. Great form. The roth looks amazing as well.

 

[abax]

I think he feeds those beasts raw meat! I'd enjoy hearing
how often and what kind of fertilizer you use. I don't
grow multis, but I do grow Paphs. and Phrags. and am a
tad conflicted about just how much fertilizer to use.

Your plants look healthy and happy...just the right color of green and
nice fat leaves.

 

[Bjorn]

Nice plants particularly the C. purpuratas, has always been a bit difficult for me. Can you disclose some info about your conditions? Are you growing outside and where are you located?
I understand that you have no, whatsoever belief in the result we obtain by using lower amounts of fertiliser, but I must assure you that they are for real.
Whether or not you would like to go deeper into understanding the nutrition of the plants you grow or just grow them, that is a personal choice, I am interested in the details due to my education, I studied chemistry, and that is why I started making my own mixes.
I am not certain that 10ppm N is giving the optimal results, but for me it has given healthier plants. It is primarily due to deceases that I did reduce the feeding. An unexpected side-effect was better growth. I believe that much of the results can be attributed to the changes I have done in the micro-nutrients so for most it may not be that easily accessible.
Fully agree with what you write, its the long term results that matters and so far, I have not used 10ppm N for that long time. If 20ppm N is included, then we can talk about 1.5years, but still, its only 5 months at 10ppm. I am watching the progress carefully.:evil:

 

[orcoholic]

I think he feeds those beasts raw meat! I'd enjoy hearing
how often and what kind of fertilizer you use. I don't
grow multis, but I do grow Paphs. and Phrags. and am a
tad conflicted about just how much fertilizer to use.

This sounds complicated, but it's not after you get used to it. Since I mix up about 10 gallons of stock to be applied at 100-1 ratio, each part is an 8oz cup.

I use RO water and add some well water - maybe 5%. I don't really know because the RO water is held in an opaque tank and a valve is turned to let in well water.

The basic fertilizer Jack's 20-10-20 Peat Lite. It has NH3 and Nh4 and the Ca-Mg ratio is about right. The Peat Lite gives a double shot of micro nutrients - so maybe that's something that should be explored more.

When the plants are in active growth (spring and fall) I add 1 part NH4 Ammonium Nitrate) to each 4 parts of 20-10-20. I don't use any NH4 when the orchids aren't growing (winter and hot summer). I also add 2 parts NH3 (Calcium Nitrate) to every 8 parts of 20-10-20 Peat Lite. I add 1/4 part MgSO4 to every 1 part of NH4 and NH3 (aka The Stone Ratio).

When the orchids are in active growth I use an Ec of .8 - 1 and when they aren't I use an Ec of .5 or less.

My pH is always as close to 6.5 as I can get it. I think this is very important.

The above is used every time I water during the growing seasons. Every once in a while, during the summer and winter, I'll just use straight water. Usually it's when I don;t feel like getting my hands blue mixing up a new batch.

Everything is grown in the same greenhouse. There is a 30% shade cloth inside that stays there 100% of the time. I put another 30% over the whole greenhouse from early spring to late fall (March thru Oct).

The minimum temp is 60F. I grow a lot Phals for my business. THe max temp is whatever it goes to in the summer. The thermometer goes to 104 and then just says OL. It's at OL about every day the sun is out in the summer.

There's very good air circulation. I think this is important to not only to prevent disease but to blow off the humidity that the leaves transpire thus forcing the roots to take up more nutrients from the pots.

Phals are grown in NZSM. Everything else is grown in medium sized Orchiata with a little charcoal and some perlite. The medium is made til it looks right. Phrags grow in CHC mixed with a little charcoal.

If you're a hobbyist with a reasonably sized collection you can get a literal lifetime supply (50 lb bags) of the stuff I mentioned above for a couple hundred dollars.

Oh yeah - I keep the raw meat for me.

 

[orcoholic]

I understand that you have no, whatsoever belief in the result we obtain by using lower amounts of fertiliser, but I must assure you that they are for real.
Whether or not you would like to go deeper into understanding the nutrition of the plants you grow or just grow them, that is a personal choice, I am interested in the details due to my education, I studied chemistry, and that is why I started making my own mixes.

Bjorn,

I respect your scientific background and need to look into different nutritional possibilities.

Believe me, before I settled on what is described in the prior post, I tried every new fad that came around. The methods i use are the result of observations made by trying different methods - including low fertilizing, growing in clay pellets, growing in only perlite, growing in rockwool, and a lot of other ways too. And, after spending a lot of money and time killing a lot of orchids.

Try the 10ppm method. But, don't leave the hobby if it doesn't work. Keep trying til you find something that works if 10ppm doesn't.

Just answer one question -

What's the reasoning with growing at that rate if a higher rate doesn't burn the roots or do any harm?

Surely it can't be the cost of using the extra fertilizer. That probably amounts to less than a penny per watering - How much difference can the cost per gallon be between .1 tsp per gallon and .5 tsp per gallon. I just don't get it.

Don't theories turn into practicalities when there are visible, proven results? The 10ppmer's have a chance to show their stuff. The gauntlet has been thrown. Let's see something.

 

[gonewild]

The 10ppmer's have a chance to show their stuff. The gauntlet has been thrown. Let's see something.

I'm not a 10ppmer.
Just to secure your point can you show a picture of your plants in your growing area? A picture that shows the other 990 plants are just as nice as these 10 select plants?

 

[orcoholic]

I'm not a 10ppmer.
Just to secure your point can you show a picture of your plants in your growing area? A picture that shows the other 990 plants are just as nice as these 10 select plants?

I'm detecting a little information highway skepticism. Here goes:

This was one Cym tracyanum - divided now, and also sold several


Some more multis


Some Catts


Some more orchids - okay so the greenhouse need some organization


Some hanging orchids


A phal gigantea


A couple Onc Ints. Only grow a couple of these

 

[orcoholic]

Here's some more.


Some Phal mariae and luedemanniana


Mostly sandies


Some more luedemannianas - all of these and the others are from one single orchid. they keiki like crazy


A Psychopsis


Some Den finesterides


Some Phrag compots


Ludisia discolor


Some Phrags, Chinese Cyms, and Dens


997, 998, 1000!

So far, nothing from the 10ppmers. I'm out of gauntlets too.

 

[orcoholic]

Here's the gigantea

 

[cnycharles]

I've been in the greenhouse and can attest that things look great. ...and also that there is a lot of air movement which I agree can help a lot of issues and drive a bit more uptake activity


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