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Most cycles allows the most chance for fertilizer input and plant up and out the door. The Dutch probably have this down really well as many plants grown fast and furious and to auction and not brought back. So, have to balance the media and everything else to allow fastest 'cycles' to allow most 'turns' or successive waves of plants through greenhouse = greatest chance of higher income. Many trade offs to manage as often the best growing media etc isn't the best for having short term plants or shipping them distance to warehouse or store, or keeping then alive once there. Good materials may be heavy and cost too much to ship. Also nitrates are chosen often for small plants on carts to stores because they can help to limit growth as tall plants take too much space on cart to store and hard to target proper sales shipping time if growing too fast and sloppy



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This is why a lot of the "studies" don't apply to hobbyists. They are done under the study sponsors conditions to maximize profits, not healthy, long term orchid growth. Gettting the most effective "turns" is what everyone is after. It's what's the right way to do it that generates the discussions here.

BTW - shouldn't you change your name to MDCharles? :)
 
Perhaps youre right; perhaps other rules govern in Valhalla?:viking::viking::fight::arrr::viking: :rollhappy::clap:
 
This is why a lot of the "studies" don't apply to hobbyists. They are done under the study sponsors conditions to maximize profits, not healthy, long term orchid growth. Gettting the most effective "turns" is what everyone is after. It's what's the right way to do it that generates the discussions here.

BTW - shouldn't you change your name to MDCharles? :)

Yes, most here likely would want to study conservatory conditions as examples for home growers. ... though understanding cycles can show how to keep your plants at peak health, without setting them back. Often an issue I would have is in summer my 2nd flr south facing apt collection would dry out too much, and the plants would get 'checked', and slow down their growth and sometimes stop. How you grow can allow your nice purchased plants to continue growing nicely and quickly, or letting things get too dry in between can slow them down or stop them. After getting checked too much, even strong fert won't make them grow quickly

Yes :) I once thought about changing to nnjcharles but heather said a name can't be changed, I'd have to start over with a new name. Also I moved again from north jersey to south jersey! Too many moves and I'd have a collection of names
 
And btw. the oxygen supply tot he roots is predominantly during watering. Heavy rains fill the voids with oxygenated water and when it disappears, fresh air is drawn into the soil/compost. Gaseous diffusion is very unlikely except for the uppermost layer.

Outstanding results Bjorn so keep doing what your're doing and I will keep doing what I'm doing :rollhappy:

But your assertion about diffusion above is (with the greatest respect:)) completey wrong. It is a very common misconception. And it is very easy to prove that it's wrong. I have some plants, (not orchids) that may go without watering for a month or more in winter (some cacti for 4 months without one drop). If the only way (or the main way) air got to roots was from water drawing it in, they would all be dead. Diffusion is the main way air gets to roots.
How can a tree growing in the desert with roots 20 metres down and no rain for 20 years get air?
As organisms draw O2 in the soil, more is replaced from the atmosphere. Gas moves from high concentration to low. This is the way plants get air to the roots. Watering helps a bit.
 
Agree Mike, an old saying up here is something like "there are many roads to Rome" or something similar, which means there are often not only one way of doing things. There are many ways that oxygen can get into the soil and diffusion is probably one of the slowest. Contrary to Peoples belief other effects are much bigger. Water is one thing, another thing is ventilation due to temperature fluctuations. With a nocturnal decrease in temperature of approximately 10C the volume of the air in the pot is reduced by approximately 4% and such temperature swings actively pumps fresh air into the pot. Then inside the pot, the composition of that air is probably equilibrated by diffusion.
When it comes to trees and plants in extreme conditions they have several strategies. Some trees growing in swamps (cypresses?) have root coming up like "snorkels" to get oxygen, other trees like cherry trees breathe through openings in the bark. So for many trees, if you plant them deeper than they were originally (or fil soil up their stem), they will suffocate.
I am not familiar with draught, here where I live its more common to drown, in the Mountains here we have still up to 12meter snow along some roads. Can you imagine?
 
There are many ways that oxygen can get into the soil and diffusion is probably one of the slowest.

Probably but still the main one.


Contrary to Peoples belief other effects are much bigger. Water is one thing, another thing is ventilation due to temperature fluctuations
With a nocturnal decrease in temperature of approximately 10C the volume of the air in the pot is reduced by approximately 4% and such temperature swings actively pumps fresh air into the pot.

So if you hold a potted plant at a constant temerature day and night and did not water for a few days, the roots would suffocate?



When it comes to trees and plants in extreme conditions they have several strategies. Some trees growing in swamps (cypresses?) have root coming up like "snorkels" to get oxygen, other trees like cherry trees breathe through openings in the bark

Very true but we are talking about normal plants (orchids) in pots not extreme adaptations like water plants etc.



I am not familiar with draught, here where I live its more common to drown, in the Mountains here we have still up to 12meter snow along some roads. Can you imagine?

A very good example to illustrate that under all that snow there is no temperature fluctuation and no free water to bring O2. So I can only repeat that diffusion is the MAIN way most plant roots get oxygen.
And in your example above, the only way.:D
 
ok, I do not hold substantiated proof for my assumptions, if the oxygen requirement is low enough then diffusion can do the trick;) But if you have an oxygen consuming process the supply of oxygen by diffusion will attain an asymptotic behaviour stabilising at a low level. Might be high enough, but at least in my growing other processes dominate (e.g. watering):D
The example with the snow does not hold though as there are almost no oxygen consuming processes going on at those temperatures. Nature hibernates. There is no light either btw so growing conditions are poor:D
 
Not a technical question but something triggered in my mind over this sentence:

This is why a lot of the "studies" don't apply to hobbyists. They are done under the study sponsors conditions to maximize profits, not healthy, long term orchid growth.

Not to do with studies per se, but commercial growers are in the business of growing and reaping profit in as short a time as possible. But a large number of them also grow and exhibit specimen plants in shows. Do ya'll think they use the same fertilizers for their specimen plants and the plants they want to sell?
 
:poke: maybe that's why there's a known effect called the 'orchid award curse' (big growth or flowers, award, crash)
Yes they use the same. But often cultural awards go to home growers who are very meticulous with their culture. A vendor can grab whatever is at the end of the bell curve of their greenhouse population


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...commercial growers are in the business of growing and reaping profit in as short a time as possible. But a large number of them also grow and exhibit specimen plants in shows. Do ya'll think they use the same fertilizers for their specimen plants and the plants they want to sell?

I was more thinking of the studies done by commercial growers in Taiwan and companies like Floricultura, that grow millions of orchids. I'm not aware of any studies done by "large" growers. I was thinking of the studies done by the humongously large growers.

And, yes, if they've found that adult orchids for exhibit grow better with different fertilizer regimes than their clones from flask, (which I think is true), then they probably grow them differently.

I think most growers give the small, deflasked orchids less fertilizer until they grow up.
 
:poke: maybe that's why there's a known effect called the 'orchid award curse' (big growth or flowers, award, crash)
Yes they use the same.

I am not sure, but I don't think that applies to people who consistently grow and exhibit large, prize-winning plants like Orchid Zone, and Krull-Smith, for example.. :confused:

I think most growers give the small, deflasked orchids less fertilizer until they grow up.

Well, that's pretty obvious. But I don't mean just quantity. Like, do commercial growers go K-heavy on the stuff they want to sell and use something different for their specimens or stud plants to ensure long term health of the plant?
 

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