Paph Lady Isobel

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NEslipper

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My last purchase at a show from Marlow's Orchids before they shut down. A first bloomer with only one flower as it's blooming on pretty weak, floppy old growth, but it has a vigorous new growth. I think it will be quite striking with 3-4 flowers if I can beef up the plant a little. The Marlow's tag says 'Lady Isabel', but there's also a Hilo Orchid Farm tag that says Paph. Stonei '2008' x Paph. Rothschilianum 'New Valley'. It's stunning, but I'm not convinced it's a Lady Isobel, the dorsal seems way too dark, although it has been cooler than usual in my grow space recently so maybe the anthocyanin production went into overdrive. I was thinking perhaps Hsinying Anita, but I really don't see anitum in this plant either. I can see stonei and roth in the flower and leaf shapes, but the dorsal just isn't sitting well with me, every Lady Isobel I've seen has a pretty light dorsal. Interested to hear what you all think, are the tags correct?
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That's a bit of a toughie. The outcome is juuuuuuuuuuuust Lady Isobel enough to be plausible and juuuuuuuuuuuust Hung Sheng Cape ( stonei x anitum for those who don't know) enough to doubt it. It's also not really what the vast majority of Hsinying Anita look like, either. Top that off with stonei being so dominant that even HSC plants don't always look very anitum-y, and ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Before anyone starts making wild complex hybrid suggestions, remember this is an old plant that was sitting around at a nursery that closed down a few years ago. You have to work with what actually existed.
 
I'd call it consistent with Lady Isobel. Or at least the ones I've bloomed, all of which are really old as well (from Taylor Orchids, who is also out of business). Maybe roth x platyphyllum? Not that I'm convinced platyphyllum isn't a variety of stonei. Sam Tsui was just telling me yesterday that it is definitely different, but he is a breeder not a taxonomist.
 
So does anyone know if any Rothchildianum and any Stonii together make a lady isobel? One label says Roth 'new valley" which to me, means a named grex rather than just a species orchid. Oh, and great that you have nice firm new leaves.

 
I'd call it consistent with Lady Isobel. Or at least the ones I've bloomed, all of which are really old as well (from Taylor Orchids, who is also out of business). Maybe roth x platyphyllum? Not that I'm convinced platyphyllum isn't a variety of stonei. Sam Tsui was just telling me yesterday that it is definitely different, but he is a breeder not a taxonomist.
Platyphyllum has pretty light coloring, but this has unusually dark coloring to my eyes (for a Lady Isobel). So you’ve seen some LI with pretty dark dorsals then?
 
That's a bit of a toughie. The outcome is juuuuuuuuuuuust Lady Isobel enough to be plausible and juuuuuuuuuuuust Hung Sheng Cape ( stonei x anitum for those who don't know) enough to doubt it. It's also not really what the vast majority of Hsinying Anita look like, either. Top that off with stonei being so dominant that even HSC plants don't always look very anitum-y, and ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Before anyone starts making wild complex hybrid suggestions, remember this is an old plant that was sitting around at a nursery that closed down a few years ago. You have to work with what actually existed.
Color-wise the HSC suggestion seems spot on, but almost all the ones I’ve seen are extremely hooded. This dorsal is flat-as-a-pancake, and from the side it could almost pass as straight roth. It definitely did the stonei/roth thing of sending up a sheath that then sat there for at least 6 months before spiking. Not sure if anitum does that?
 
So does anyone know if any Rothchildianum and any Stonii together make a lady isobel? One label says Roth 'new valley" which to me, means a named grex rather than just a species orchid. Oh, and great that you have nice firm new leaves.

Yes, any stonei x roth or roth x stonei cross (it doesn’t matter the pod parent) would be Lady Isobel. The ‘New Valley’ refers to a particular individual rothschildianum plant that was given a name by the breeder.
 
Color-wise the HSC suggestion seems spot on, but almost all the ones I’ve seen are extremely hooded. This dorsal is flat-as-a-pancake, and from the side it could almost pass as straight roth. It definitely did the stonei/roth thing of sending up a sheath that then sat there for at least 6 months before spiking. Not sure if anitum does that?

My Hung Sheng Capes have all been hooded so far and I've never seen a pic of a flat one. Your plant seems perfectly within the range of Lady Isobel IMO.

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I don't think that is Lady Isobel myself. I haven't seen one with a dorsal like that. They are normally consistent like my avatar.
Plus the petals are very long and pendulous. The whole look of that flower just seems wrong for a Lady Isobel. Hybrids involving stonei and anitum often have a dorsal like yours. Plus anitum would explain the longer pendulous petals. So that would be my suggestion.
 
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Another thing that stands out looking again is the staminode, yours sticks out and has the classic bent knee look from roths influence where my HSC have all been flat and tight against the column.

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I have not seen any LI that are dark, no. The first picture shown did not seem dark to me. I was more interested in finding out if "any" stonii, and any Rothchildianum becomes a Lady Isobel, regardless of the specific grex, or if LI is only one genetic mix. That's all.
 
Kalyke, you're correct, any plant that is progeny from a stonei crossed with a rothchildianum is Lady Isobel. The only way to distinguish crosses is to have the clonal names of the parents, such as rothschildianum’new valley’. If you have a particular clone of LI that you want to distinguish then again you give it a cultivar name after the LI.
 
Love it. Looks very much LI
The back is definitely a stonei. stonei can carry that reddish dark color and some roth now a days have dark red hues. This new remakes I think will be interesting. I have one in sheath now bred by Sam with roth Kingkong. Hoping it will show some dark color like yours.
 
To me it appears to be Paph Stone Addict which is stonei x adductum which I flowered in June 2022.

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