a couple of noid phrags for the experts

[Tara]

I bought these two at our first foray to an English flower show, very happy with my purchases but wonder if anyone can suggest who they are.
first off.
phrag noid 1 by Tara Rerrie, on Flickr

phrag noid by Tara Rerrie, on Flickr

and the second one.

phrag pink noid 1 by Tara Rerrie, on Flickr

TIA

 

[Kalyke]

So many of these two types look so much the same!