what is this plant?

[myxodex]

If it is a natural hybrid from Vietnam I would go for hiepii X purpuratum as their ranges come close in the north, ... they just bloom at completely different times of the year.

 

[Drorchid]

What ever it is, it looks pretty interesting. To me it also looks like some natural hybrid between a parvi (perhaps hiepii) and some barbatum type species.

Robert

 

[NYEric]

Man made or natural! :ninja:

 

[kentuckiense]

What I find particularly interesting are the Parvi-esque abaxial leaf spotting and leaf stance.

 

[John M]

If it is a natural hybrid from Vietnam I would go for hiepii X purpuratum as their ranges come close in the north, ... they just bloom at completely different times of the year.

I thought purpuratum came from Hong Kong, not Vietnam. Have a missed news of this species being discovered in Vietnam as well?

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

I don't know what it is about that flower that creeps me out...kind of like the cyclops kitten or the anencephalic baby that was worshipped as a god...no doubt that if it becomes available I will want it anyway...there was a time when I thought that sangii was the ugliest paph conceivable...now I want it...and the ugliest paph award now goes to......?

 

[Pete]

the pouch of sangii is weird, kinda like a venustum, only moreso..but its got unreal petals!
but this thing is downright busted. and thats coming from a guy whos a fan of warts and hairs on flowers... ha!

 

[myxodex]

John, P. purpuratum was discovered in northern Vietnam near the Chinese border in 2000 by Averyanov. In his book "Slipper Orchids of Vietnam" (2003) there are photographs of Vietnamese plants in situ. It also occurs in regions of SE China that border Vietnam. A new species called P.aestivum was described from this region, however in the above mentioned book they conclude that this plant, which differs from purpuratum in having a horizontal dorsal, distinct veins on it's leaves and which flowers at a different time of year to P. purpuratum, nonetheless falls into the natural variation of P. purpuratum. They speculate that purpuratum "aestivum" actually originates in Vietnam and appeared together with typical purpuratum at a market in the Chinese border town of Wenshan where Vietnamese plants are regularly traded.
It is the dorsal and the green reticulate markings on the staminode that made me think of Barbata species, and the other two Barbata species from Vietnam, callosum and appletonianum occur far to the south.
However it's just idle speculation on my part as I cannot see how these two species could produce that profoundly ugly thing, unless we are looking at a seriously deformed flower.

 

[Pete]

it looks like a damaged flower, like something happened to the plant when the bud was at a critical time of development. ive seen crazily distorted stuff like this before from like pesticide damage..

 

[Pete]

i dunno its just so small looking, could it be a deformed (hiepii x purpuratum) or something?

 

[valenzino]

i dunno its just so small looking, could it be a deformed (hiepii x purpuratum) or something?

If you look to the flower,its simmetrical,with no strange issues on its parts well opened and in the "opening sequence",opens with no evident deformations.
In my opinion this cannot be absolutely a deformed flower.Maybe a mutation(also mutation have nearly always evident simmetry problems) but also difficult.
Impossible can be a hiepii hybrid,the plant and flower is too small.
The plant is + or - micranthum size with little bit rounder leaves....
The only flower similar to this(but still very different and size still too big) is
P. malipoense var. angustatum.

 

[labskaus]

The only flower similar to this(but still very different and size still too big) is
P. malipoense var. angustatum.

I am convinced that both hiepii and angustatum are aberrant forms of jackii/malipoense, and as far as I know Averyanov thinks the same about hiepii by now. I won't comment on the work of the people who published angustatum and a lot of other Paphiopedilum names. Just that much:
That plant which is the subject of this post looks a lot like hiepii and therefore looks a lot like the aberrant, deformed flower of a badly treated, weak and highly stressed plant. You're pointing out that the plant size is small, maybe it is simply too young to carry a normal flower?
I still find it unlikely that a natural hybrid should exist between a Parvisepalum and a species from a different section. There's Barbata (purpuratum?) influence in this flower, so who got his toothpick out to fool the Paph community (and earn a few bucks) with this new species?:evil: Remember Paph jogjae.

 

[valenzino]

I am convinced that both hiepii and angustatum are aberrant forms of jackii/malipoense, and as far as I know Averyanov thinks the same about hiepii by now. I won't comment on the work of the people who published angustatum and a lot of other Paphiopedilum names. Just that much:
That plant which is the subject of this post looks a lot like hiepii and therefore looks a lot like the aberrant, deformed flower of a badly treated, weak and highly stressed plant. You're pointing out that the plant size is small, maybe it is simply too young to carry a normal flower?
I still find it unlikely that a natural hybrid should exist between a Parvisepalum and a species from a different section. There's Barbata (purpuratum?) influence in this flower, so who got his toothpick out to fool the Paph community (and earn a few bucks) with this new species?:evil: Remember Paph jogjae.

About hiepii and angustatum I can agree,like mich oblatum and globulosum...

The plant is small but not young,is a multigrowth plant(the one in the photo is 3 growths).
About similarity to this plant with hiepii...I dont see similarity,is like saying that delenatii can be confused with vietnamense.
Also i cant see any Barbata character in this flower.And finally,as i mentioned before is not a single plant...there are more.
Important is that the owner is an hobbist/explorer that dont sell plants and is keeping secret the original location at the moment.

 

[John M]

Thanks for the explanation myxodex.

 

[labskaus]

Thanks for your replies, Valenzino. No offense intended towards you. Let's sit back, and wait what comes out of this.

 

[valenzino]

Thanks for your replies, Valenzino. No offense intended towards you. Let's sit back, and wait what comes out of this.

Dont worry,I think this are positive discussions to have,to have a comparison about ideas....usually truth stays in the middle....
Shurly soon more news about it...

If its a species....with what you will cross it?

 

[Leo Schordje]

Time, which will allow the collection of better information, will tell what this is. If it is a natural hybrid my guess would be Paph (hainaniense x micranthum), that could account for the petals, narrow dorsal, the stripes in the dorsal, but not likely for the column & staminode sheild. It will become another one on the list needed to make a complete collection.

 

[wonderlen3000]

could it be emersonii natural hybrids?? probably with hiepii that is under nutrition. lol The plant does have typical emersonii hybrid pouch and you can see the slight tessellation on the petal, that is typical of malipoense.

Flower is small, but don't forget hirtsutisismum is a very large flower and some clone can be as big as 6-8" across.

 

[Pete]

If its a species....with what you will cross it?

I'd self it and see if theres a lot of segregation

 

[Hakone]

paphiopedilum canhii

http://www.hoalanvietnam.org/Article.asp?ID=681