What if Phrag besseae was never collected?

[gonewild]

I had the pleasure to visit the original collecting location of Phrag besseae last week. Good thing the plant poachers took them all because the habitat is completely gone now. The road has been paved and as you can see in the pictures the roadside is pretty sterile now, complete with cement gunnite sprayed to keep the cliff from falling. It is a pretty drive but not many plants left along the road.

The good part is it is only an hour drive from town now.

A few orchids survived the habit modification

 

[SlipperFan]

Interesting, Lance. Any chance the besseaes could re-establish themselves in that habitat?

 

[John M]

With reference to the destroyed besseae habitat....as I shake my head in disbelief.....I can't help but mutter "People are so-ooooo stupid!"

 

[smartie2000]

damn that is some bare rockery! one of the cases where plant collection turned out well.

Plants should be allowed to be collected freely in areas of planned future construction and development.

 

[Bolero]

In that immediate area it turned out well but surely the plant is also growing around that area even though they aren't growing along the roadside.

I don't know that I agree with collecting plants freely, how can you control where exactly people go to get them? Human nature is that they will go and collect them in the surrounding areas as well and not just at this site.

Yes the plants may have disappeared where they built the road but they would have survived elsewhere in that area.

 

[NYEric]

:sob: This is "Progress" !?!??!

 

[gonewild]

Interesting, Lance. Any chance the besseaes could re-establish themselves in that habitat?

No chance the plants will re-establish in the roadside habitat. Besides the direct scraping of the ground the entire road corridor was cleared of trees. Once the tree cover is removed the small wet areas that many plants and animals exist in dry up. Even the major streams in the area are much lower in water now. The water just evaporates into the air.

I don't know how wide spread besseae was in the mountains but appearently nearly all the plants were collected in the past. Probably the species was very restricted to a small micro climate area. Many species just exist in a tiny geographical area or zone and once the area is disturbed the species may be history. On the other hand farther up the mountain there may be a lot of besseae left still growing. For sure the collectors did not climb to every possible location, they just would not be able to or willing to.

A couple years ago I posted some pictures of 5 wild besseae plants Alfredo Manurique collected with INRENA permits. At the time he told me there was still a small population in a secret location. On this trip someone told me there was two plants left growing in the location. Alfredos plants are still alive and growing, but not as vigorously as he would like. He has used pollen to cross with kovachii, but the plants as yet are not strong enough to use as pod parents. Even when he does have besseae plants produced it is not likely INRENA will ever allow them to be replanted in the wild.

Here is a picture of the 5 wild besseae plants now....

 

[gonewild]

With reference to the destroyed besseae habitat....as I shake my head in disbelief.....I can't help but mutter "People are so-ooooo stupid!"

Yes people are stupid. But in all fairness the new drive is breathtakingly beautiful from a modern perspective.....

 

[gonewild]

damn that is some bare rockery! one of the cases where plant collection turned out well.

Plants should be allowed to be collected freely in areas of planned future construction and development.

Ha! Those are tiny bare rock spots compared to what the new Transoceanic highway has done to the unexplored zone between Madre de Dios and Cusco. Later I will post some pics of that highway construction where I bet one billion orchid plants were destroyed. Maybe a trillion since that is a small number now?

 

[gonewild]

:sob: This is "Progress" !?!??!

No this is only the road that leads to the progress. Do you want to see pictures of the low Amazon forest that has been cleared to plant oil palm plantations for bio fuels? :sob:

 

[NYEric]

Somebody please send this to the US officials who are regulating CITES enforcement and ask them to justify their salaries!

 

[biothanasis]

In a world where even the air we breathe is measured in money, I don't wonder why these things happen....!!

Let them be....! Things won't change, unless their "brains" change...!

 

[slippertalker]

Somebody please send this to the US officials who are regulating CITES enforcement and ask them to justify their salaries!

Unfortunately they are doing what they are doing to justify their salaries....

 

[Shiva]

People need a place to build a home, grow food. make a life for themselves and their children. They have every right to do so. We, the developped nations, have done this already. We are the ones who have fouled the air, the land and the seas, we're even changing the climate. We need to deal with our own mountainous crap pile before we ask others to clean theirs. Otherwise, we may drive ourselves to hell and extinction. The least we can do for now is save what can be saved and hope the (concerned) bureaucrats will follow... But I doubt it. Sorry for being so pessimistic!

 

[gonewild]

People need a place to build a home, grow food. make a life for themselves and their children. They have every right to do so. We, the developped nations, have done this already. We are the ones who have fouled the air, the land and the seas, we're even changing the climate. We need to deal with our own mountainous crap pile before we ask others to clean theirs. Otherwise, we may drive ourselves to hell and extinction. The least we can do for now is save what can be saved and hope the (concerned) bureaucrats will follow... But I doubt it. Sorry for being so pessimistic!

Normally I would be the first to agree with you about the needs of the local people. But in this case you are not correct.

These modern paved roads are not what the local people want at all. The paved roads are for mega corporations to be able to move product more efficiently (cheaper). The local people would prefer the money to be spent on developing potable water and sewage systems in their communities.

The road that is pictured here was built to open up a huge area of lowland Amazonian forest to development. In only a few years the forest has been cleared for as far as the eye can see. It is being planted with oil palm for bio fuel production. These plantations are largely owned by a couple of big banks ( do you own stock in these companies?). When this happens the local people are displaced and can no longer survive on their simple farms. These oil palm plantations are being put in to supply foreign countries with bio fuels. Done in the name of global conservation?

Oil Palm production will completely destroy all the tropical forests in a very short time and the "local" people are paying the price.

 

[Lars Pedersen]

Hi

Shiva.... you are so right !
I think it is ok they make a road.....and they cant build it a litle to the left to save a few plants :rollhappy:

We have to face it.... how can we ask them to preserve every tiny fungy, when we have cultivated every corner of our world, so the only nature we have left, is what we have missed by mistake.
They want to live like we do, and they have every right to for it...

Dont mistake..... I am a conservationist !

The biggest mistake is that we - the amateurs.... the real enthusiasts, who grow these gems alot better than any botanical garden I have ever seen - are not alowed to what we want to do the most -and do better than anyone.......Ex-situ conservation !

Private message: Lance will you please contact me on [email protected]
My laptop crashed, and my conversation with Alfredo got lost...

.... comming to Ecuador soon
Lars

 

[smartie2000]

People need a place to build a home, grow food. make a life for themselves and their children. They have every right to do so. We, the developped nations, have done this already. We are the ones who have fouled the air, the land and the seas, we're even changing the climate. We need to deal with our own mountainous crap pile before we ask others to clean theirs. Otherwise, we may drive ourselves to hell and extinction. The least we can do for now is save what can be saved and hope the (concerned) bureaucrats will follow... But I doubt it. Sorry for being so pessimistic!

well said. thank you.
there are too many in USA that worry about other nations when the US consumes and makes far more wastes than developing countries (many multiples, somewhere around 9 times more per capita) I believe the US consumes many multiples more per capita than countries like China that are beyond 'developing'. It is a shame that USA is always playing mr. boss

 

[Shiva]

Lance! That's how it happened in our developped countries. First they open the land for exploitation. Then the people follow and get established. With the people present, more companies move in looking for cheap labor. Factories need workers and workers need money, and food, which brings in the cattle ranchers and chicken farmers and so on. Before long, there are schools, churches, hospitals, jails, shopping malls... We call that civilisation.

 

[gonewild]

well said. thank you.
there are too many in USA that worry about other nations when the US consumes and makes far more wastes than developing countries (many multiples, somewhere around 9 times more per capita) I believe the US consumes many multiples more per capita than countries like China that are beyond 'developing'. It is a shame that USA is always playing mr. boss

In this case you are not so "smartie"!
The USA is not to blame for this one.

The EU is buying all the oil palm production, Not the USA. Banco de Credito a huge bank with European roots is at the head of the industry in Peru.

I did not even mention the huge palm heart plantations that are also being planted to feed the desires of the EU for the tender morsel at the heart of the Pijuayo palm tree. Remember that when you buy palm heart at the market.

 

[gonewild]

Lance! That's how it happened in our developped countries. First they open the land for exploitation. Then the people follow and get established. With the people present, more companies move in looking for cheap labor. Factories need workers and workers need money, and food, which brings in the cattle ranchers and chicken farmers and so on. Before long, there are schools, churches, hospitals, jails, shopping malls... We call that civilisation.

Yes that is how it happened.
I'm not opposed to it happening now at all for the undeveloped countries. The difference in how "we" did it is that we did it to ourselves and the riches enriched ourselves. What is happening in Peru with the oil palms is rape and pilliage. Foreign money investors are moving in and taking the resources and the wealth. Obviously Banco de Credito knows what is best for the future of the people.