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17andgrowing
Guest
That's fantastic Bjorn
vietnamense bud-watch
- Thread starter Bjorn
- Start date
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NYEric
Well-Known Member
Good luck. Very interesting.
O
orchideya
Guest
Cool! I have no idea how you do it on paphs, just tried with phalaenopsis.
When can you see if worked?
When can you see if worked?
When the seeds produces protocorn!:rollhappy:
No. Frankly, the first is when the ovary starts to swell and the stalk does not dry out. According to my experience, it may take more than a week before the flower falls of, kinda slow thing. After seed harvest ypu may checkthe seds in a microscope for embryos. The proof of the pudding is the eating which also applies to these things.
The pollination is not always that easy, that is why the pouch often is removed to get access to the stigma.
No. Frankly, the first is when the ovary starts to swell and the stalk does not dry out. According to my experience, it may take more than a week before the flower falls of, kinda slow thing. After seed harvest ypu may checkthe seds in a microscope for embryos. The proof of the pudding is the eating which also applies to these things.
The pollination is not always that easy, that is why the pouch often is removed to get access to the stigma.
paworsport
Well-Known Member
Both are very nice:drool::drool:
But I was sure that vietnamense has only a staminode with a green heart on it without any red marks.
Could we discuss this point on the forum ? Could it be an hybrid with a little part of delenatii like ho chi min x back crossed with vietnamense ?
But I was sure that vietnamense has only a staminode with a green heart on it without any red marks.
Could we discuss this point on the forum ? Could it be an hybrid with a little part of delenatii like ho chi min x back crossed with vietnamense ?
paworsport
Well-Known Member
I have found a o,d post on the forum from Australia ( quietaustralian)and, was not able to past the link "
I'm not sure this is a pure Paph vietnamense. Looking at the staminode, I'd guess it's a Paph Vo Nguyen Giap (Paph Ho Chi Minh x Paph vietnamense).
What do you think, David?"
I'm not sure this is a pure Paph vietnamense. Looking at the staminode, I'd guess it's a Paph Vo Nguyen Giap (Paph Ho Chi Minh x Paph vietnamense).
What do you think, David?"
Here is the link to that thread
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31203&highlight=vietnamense
Frankly, I have been wondering about the same, so I studied the staminode carefully when it was in bloom but did not see any clear red in it. The red in the pictures might come as a reflex or something? BUT there is this dark area which is not normal.
Another thing is that it comes from a flask of other vietnamense; some of them have already bloomed last winter. One was almost the same size as the "suspectible" one, but with a much smaller plant. And without that dark blotch.
See below.
Since their origin is the same flask, and the other flowers I have seen of that flask are normal, I came to the conclusion that the big one is a result of some genetic mutation, e.g. polyploidity. That is based on the sheer size and vigour of the plant. But of course, it may be some foreign genes mixed into the genetic make-up. But there seems to be something with the time-line that at the best is a close race.
Ho Chi Minh was registered in 2002, Vo Ngyen Giap in 2013 which makes sense time-wise. My vietnamense were deflasked in March 2012 and a rough guesstimate says that they had been at least 2-3 years since seed harvest, so 2009, and then a year since pollination, 2008. Possible but likely?
Just my 2cents....
But there is something different with that plant that is true...
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31203&highlight=vietnamense
Frankly, I have been wondering about the same, so I studied the staminode carefully when it was in bloom but did not see any clear red in it. The red in the pictures might come as a reflex or something? BUT there is this dark area which is not normal.
Another thing is that it comes from a flask of other vietnamense; some of them have already bloomed last winter. One was almost the same size as the "suspectible" one, but with a much smaller plant. And without that dark blotch.
See below.
Since their origin is the same flask, and the other flowers I have seen of that flask are normal, I came to the conclusion that the big one is a result of some genetic mutation, e.g. polyploidity. That is based on the sheer size and vigour of the plant. But of course, it may be some foreign genes mixed into the genetic make-up. But there seems to be something with the time-line that at the best is a close race.
Ho Chi Minh was registered in 2002, Vo Ngyen Giap in 2013 which makes sense time-wise. My vietnamense were deflasked in March 2012 and a rough guesstimate says that they had been at least 2-3 years since seed harvest, so 2009, and then a year since pollination, 2008. Possible but likely?
Just my 2cents....
But there is something different with that plant that is true...
paworsport
Well-Known Member
Here is the link to that thread
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31203&highlight=vietnamense
Frankly, I have been wondering about the same, so I studied the staminode carefully when it was in bloom but did not see any clear red in it. The red in the pictures might come as a reflex or something? BUT there is this dark area which is not normal.
Another thing is that it comes from a flask of other vietnamense; some of them have already bloomed last winter. One was almost the same size as the "suspectible" one, but with a much smaller plant. And without that dark blotch.
See below.
Since their origin is the same flask, and the other flowers I have seen of that flask are normal, I came to the conclusion that the big one is a result of some genetic mutation, e.g. polyploidity. That is based on the sheer size and vigour of the plant. But of course, it may be some foreign genes mixed into the genetic make-up. But there seems to be something with the time-line that at the best is a close race.
Ho Chi Minh was registered in 2002, Vo Ngyen Giap in 2013 which makes sense time-wise. My vietnamense were deflasked in March 2012 and a rough guesstimate says that they had been at least 2-3 years since seed harvest, so 2009, and then a year since pollination, 2008. Possible but likely?
Just my 2cents....
But there is something different with that plant that is true...
Thanks Bjorn for'your message it is quite interesting
How do you grow them exactly?
Just a last comment. After searching Google for Paph vietnamense, I have seen many questionable examples that probably are Ho Chi Minh. Some other have only a slight touch of red and for at least one of them the photo was taken in April 2007. Very unlikely to be a second generation hybrid, as the species itself was not discovered before 1998 if I am right....Another one was a picture of a division of an allegedly wild collected plant (offered at a high price of course) - with traces of red in the staminode. All in all the pictures of staminodes with traces of red were so plentyful that I personally feel it is unlikely that they could all be second generation hybrids and not a genetic variation, perhaps originating from one single location. Particularly taken the novelty of the back-cross of HCM with vietnamense into account. But one can of course never be certain.......:evil:
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