Two Paph rothschildianums

[JimNJ]

The Rex x MM is really nice. Xavier is correct about the cross number, however, in that the tag does have an inconsistency between the cross # and the parents listed. It is a really good one though.

This and the other thread on roth parentage have been very informative. The grower thought it was a remake of the cross done later. How much time does it take to remake a cross?

 

[Theodoreorchidking]

Great flowers

 

[Roth]

For the Rex x Mt Millais, it was not remade by the Orchid Zone for certain, so the other Znumber is a different roth cross, much more recent. You need to check with someone who has pricelist from the Orchid Zone to know the actual parentage then.

It does not look like a Rex x MM either as well.

For the cross 69 x Mt Millais, it is not possible that it is a Mt Millais progeny, except if Justin, myself, eventually TON gave pollen of Mt Millais to make a roth cross like that, otherwise there is no chance that it can have Mt Millais as a parent...

 

[Silverwhisp]

For the cross 69 x Mt Millais, it is not possible that it is a Mt Millais progeny, except if Justin, myself, eventually TON gave pollen of Mt Millais to make a roth cross like that, otherwise there is no chance that it can have Mt Millais as a parent..

So Hilo would have had to receive MM pollen from one of 3 sources, then.

 

[Justin]

Orchid Inn had Mont Millais at one point as well.

When John Chant took over the Orchid Zone from Terry Root, I sent him a pod of MM x self seed. But they went out of business and not sure it ever got flasked. I don't recall sending any pollen though, and of course this was all many years after Jim's plant would have been initially crossed.

 

[Roth]

Orchid Inn had Mont Millais at one point as well.

When John Chant took over the Orchid Zone from Terry Root, I sent him a pod of MM x self seed. But they went out of business and not sure it ever got flasked. I don't recall sending any pollen though, and of course this was all many years after Jim's plant would have been initially crossed.

Mt Millais when it is the real one is usually resold very quickly with a profit ( that's why you got it, and that's why I got it).

The history of yours is that it was a plant ordered by Ralph Tran/LienLuu originally at great cost from the Eric Young back then.

Even the Orchid Zone actually used it to make 2-3 crosses then sold it instant... but that plant as far as I know died...

As for me, I used all the MM pollen so far for myself, except some for David Sorokowsky.... So if not from you or from me, there is some kind of problem in the authenticity of the plants sold with Mt Millais as a parent.

I know that I have asked a few times breeders/sellers who had roths x Mt Millais, or hybrids x Mt Millais, and either they lost the photos, or the flower was not as good as the latest FCC, so not worth picturing. Another legend is that it is a slow, difficult to grow plant, where actually it is an easy grower and bloomer...

One deadly mistake however that was made in the early days by some of the earlier buyers was to get the plant fresh out of the Eric Young, in flower or near blooming, put as many capsules as possible on it. The plants would greatly suffer and die, but that would be the same for any roth not yet established with all the flowers carrying a pod...

I have seen as well two other plants, one in Japan and one in Taiwan named Mt Millais, there are photos on internet, and they are clearly not at all Mt Millais either.

 

[Guldal]

My friend, Hans Christiansen (of P. hennisianum fma. christiansenii) has a division of Mt. Millais, that he got from Eric Young (of Eric Young Foundation, Jersey) with whom he was acquainted, when Mr. Young was alive.

 

[JimNJ]

For the Rex x Mt Millais, it was not remade by the Orchid Zone for certain, so the other Znumber is a different roth cross, much more recent. You need to check with someone who has pricelist from the Orchid Zone to know the actual parentage then.

It does not look like a Rex x MM either as well.

For the cross 69 x Mt Millais, it is not possible that it is a Mt Millais progeny, except if Justin, myself, eventually TON gave pollen of Mt Millais to make a roth cross like that, otherwise there is no chance that it can have Mt Millais as a parent...

For the Rex x Mt Millais, it was not remade by the Orchid Zone for certain, so the other Znumber is a different roth cross, much more recent. You need to check with someone who has pricelist from the Orchid Zone to know the actual parentage

It does not look like a Rex x MM either as well.

For the cross 69 x Mt Millais, it is not possible that it is a Mt Millais progeny, except if Justin, myself, eventually TON gave pollen of Mt Millais to make a roth cross like that, otherwise there is no chance that it can have Mt Millais as a parent...

It would be great if someone has an old OZ price list to check what the Z2519 cross was - this is so intriguing now.

 

[Roth]

My friend, Hans Christiansen (of P. hennisianum fma. christiansenii) has a division of Mt. Millais, that he got from Eric Young (of Eric Young Foundation, Jersey) with whom he was acquainted, when Mr. Young was alive.

Actually no, what Hans has is a selfing of Mt Millais. Prior to his death, Eric Young sold divisions of Mt Millais to two Japanese only, Yamato Noen, and the Tokyo Orchids Nursery...

Another fun fact is that there were hundreds of real Mt Millais x self released, but today, one cannot find any alive. The same applies for the Charles E. x Borneo. Some plants like Val, Sam's Best, etc... that are these were very vigorous and easily clumping.

The TON breeding idea actually was to use the vigor, flowerspan and growth speed of Val to try to improve the strenght/flower size of Mt Millais. It clearly worked after all...

 

[emydura]

best Raptor offspring, yet????

Like just about all the Raptor crosses, the dark colour is absent. This Black Star x Raptor seems to be one of the exceptions.

 

[Paph Paradise]

Rex x Mt Millais was Z2135, would be interesting to know what was Z2519, but it could not be Rex x Mt Millais for certain. Terry kept the Mt Millais only a couple years before selling it..

According to the OZ records, Z2519 is indeed 'Rex' x 'MM'.

Dave

 

[Roth]

Then the plot thickens, as Terry Root wrote somewhere that he resold Mt Millais as he had used 'all of its potential' once he did the Z2135 and 2 other crosses in the early days... Plus the plant blooming would be really weird and unusual for Rex x Mt Millais, to say the least. Most of them were remarkably constant back then, and I saw a lot of those Z-2135...

 

[JimNJ]

According to the OZ records, Z2519 is indeed 'Rex' x 'MM'.

Dave

Thanks Dave. Just to reconfirm - apart from Z2135 and Z2519 - were there other Rex x MM crosses listed in the records?

 

[BrucherT]

This discussion has become much more fun now!

 

[spujr]

Is it more ideal for the roth flower petals to be more horizontal and not sloping downwards? Seems like the big awarded plants have petals more straight.

Broadening this question more, what makes a good roth flower good, besides size and color intensity with little muddled areas?

 

[Happypaphy7]

Three of the FCCs I'm looking at, Jordon Winter, Krull-Smith and Scott Ware all have petals that are slightly sloping downwards rather than horizonal. I think they look more aesthetically pleasing that way although this is totally subjective.
Perfectly horizontal petals look rather artificial to me. Sloping down too much like some shown here also doesn't do it for me.

They (award people) care a lot about the dorsal width and petal width. I personally don't like wide petals on roth unless the petals are extremely long. I also don't like strangely round dorsal like on Krull-Smith. Jordon Winter is my ideal roth shape & color, personally.
Now, if I were to buy seedling of Jordon Winter x Krull-Smith, what would I get?

 

[emydura]

I agree. Perfectly horizontal flowers look a little unnatural. I like them to be down swept a little, but not too much.

 

[spujr]

Here's my 'World Cup ' x 'Raptor', I think it's not bad for a first bloom, though the petals could be a little more straight and symmetrical.

Largest measures 25.4 ns, 6.35 ds, and 1.9 petal width.

I'm not too happy with the health of the plant, the new growth is only just starting so I'll cut the flower and let the plant recover.

 

[JimNJ]

Very nice - with 4 blooms too. Good idea to cut the inflorescence, I cut mine a bit late, and am now left with just 2 healthy leaves remaining.