Phragmipedium unknown x besseae
- Thread starter Secundino
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The shape of the bloom (somewhat too.. round?)... the way the petals are held... The rather light color... It is miles away from the Andean Fire I grow
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Phrag. dalessandroi x sargentianum - Grosnez, maybe??
D
Drorchid
Guest
I agree with Erythrone; when I look at it, I definitely see besseae, sargentianum (or perhaps lindleyanum) and some schlimii in it.
How about (sargentianum x schlimii) x besseae = Phrag. Coral Jewel x besseae = Phrag. Will Ostrander
Unfortunately no pictures on the web :-(
Robert
How about (sargentianum x schlimii) x besseae = Phrag. Coral Jewel x besseae = Phrag. Will Ostrander
Unfortunately no pictures on the web :-(
Robert
I got this plant from Elsner Orchideen; if you look at her site, you see a very similar flower.
But I agree in that this plant looks different compared to some of the Andean Fire you can see in the web, BUT: there are a lot of japanese photographs of Andean Fire with the same characteristics.
I thought first, it could be Inca Fire, but it is not as consistlently red. Though the temperatures (night always more than 22ºC) might infere in the colour.
I don't see any schlimii in it, the slender pouch, the opening, the staminode - but you are the experts, I'm new to growing Phragmipedium.
But I agree in that this plant looks different compared to some of the Andean Fire you can see in the web, BUT: there are a lot of japanese photographs of Andean Fire with the same characteristics.
I thought first, it could be Inca Fire, but it is not as consistlently red. Though the temperatures (night always more than 22ºC) might infere in the colour.
I don't see any schlimii in it, the slender pouch, the opening, the staminode - but you are the experts, I'm new to growing Phragmipedium.
D
Dido
Guest
you should ask here directly what it is and if there could be a mix up or not, she will answer you honestly.
You are right Secundino... the picture of Andean Fire on the website of Elsner Orchideen looks a lot like your plant
But.. I am pretty sure it is not a real Andean Fire. Let's see what Drorchid think about it:
http://www.elsner-orchideen.de/englisch/start.htm
But.. I am pretty sure it is not a real Andean Fire. Let's see what Drorchid think about it:
http://www.elsner-orchideen.de/englisch/start.htm
D
Drorchid
Guest
I do agree, that Secundino's plant is the same as what they show on their website as "Andean Fire". I am not ruling it out 100% that is what it is, it just looks off to me. For one, it is too light (too pink) for me, especially if you look at the staminodal shield, all the Andean Fire that I have seen (just do a google search) will be darker and more "reddish" colored, and always will have more red hairs on the staminodal shield. This one (and the one they show on their website) is almost all white, with just a few dark pink colored hairs. Even the shape of the staminodal shield is off, on the one that Secundino is showing the shield is more round in shape (compare it to the picture of Erythrone), which could come from it's schlimii background.
Also the background color of Andean Fire tends to be more "yellow" in color (look at Erythrones picture) This one (and the one they show on their website) has more of a "white" background. And finally most Andean Fire, have more of a "wavy" edge to the petals, this one does not have a wavy edge, and the petals seem more "rounded". That is why I believe there is some "schlimii" in the background. A similar cross that has schlimii, sargentianum and besseae in the background is Phrag. Elizabeth Castle.
Robert
Also the background color of Andean Fire tends to be more "yellow" in color (look at Erythrones picture) This one (and the one they show on their website) has more of a "white" background. And finally most Andean Fire, have more of a "wavy" edge to the petals, this one does not have a wavy edge, and the petals seem more "rounded". That is why I believe there is some "schlimii" in the background. A similar cross that has schlimii, sargentianum and besseae in the background is Phrag. Elizabeth Castle.
Robert
You're certainly talking about Andean Fire, not Andean Tears, are'n t you?
D
Drorchid
Guest
oeps, yes, you are right, I meant Andean Fire...was typing too fast..
made the edits..
Robert
Yes, it looks exactly like the Phrag. Elisabeth Castle posted in 2009 by JeanLux. A mislabelled plant, too. Still will keep the old tag, but it's likely to be changed again. And I'll keep an open eye at the european catalogues - there are not so many options for Phragmipedium.
How big are the flowers of Phrag. Elisabeth Castle?
Thanks to you both!
How big are the flowers of Phrag. Elisabeth Castle?
Thanks to you both!
I think Robert is right. Your plant looks a lot like Elisabeth Castle.
Elisabeth Castle can have a NS of 7 to 10 cm.
Elisabeth Castle can have a NS of 7 to 10 cm.
D
Dido
Guest
I think she is a trustable seller, at least she is really resonabel.
She always told me if she is not sure if the tag is right, so if she think it is, then it should be.
But I think she bought the flask or young plants somewhere, as she normaly dont breed phrags.
She always told me if she is not sure if the tag is right, so if she think it is, then it should be.
But I think she bought the flask or young plants somewhere, as she normaly dont breed phrags.
Oh yes, i like buying there just because of being a very trustable and plant-caring seller. Never got a bad plant from her, and if a plant is very little, or to big to send, she tells before.
I've been browsing the www for both plants and parentages. Leaving aside all the flowers-pics that are very improbable of beeing what they claim for, I do see that there seem to be two very close groups of Andean Fire; a more yellowish and at the same time more wavy type, opposed to a whitish and not so wavy form.
Elisabth Castle is nearly always whitish, the staminode always is. And the petals are rounder. And ther are indeed some Elisabeth Castle -pics that match my plant (and diiffer from the more rosy-white Elisabeth Castle).
But two main differences between Elisabeth Castle and Andean Fire seem consistent: the pouch is not as inflated as in schlimii-hybrids (to my eye besseae-hybrids have a 'slender' pouch) and my plant has no rosy flowers, it is red with underlying white zones, but no rosé at all. It is very difficult getting the right tone with a photo, for in the morning light the flowers are more red, red-orange, while in the afternoons the bluish red is predominant.
In any case, it will stay 'Andean Fire' now, the most likely (and simple) cross; with an exclamation mark to remember that it could be something else.
Thanks to all of you!
I've been browsing the www for both plants and parentages. Leaving aside all the flowers-pics that are very improbable of beeing what they claim for, I do see that there seem to be two very close groups of Andean Fire; a more yellowish and at the same time more wavy type, opposed to a whitish and not so wavy form.
Elisabth Castle is nearly always whitish, the staminode always is. And the petals are rounder. And ther are indeed some Elisabeth Castle -pics that match my plant (and diiffer from the more rosy-white Elisabeth Castle).
But two main differences between Elisabeth Castle and Andean Fire seem consistent: the pouch is not as inflated as in schlimii-hybrids (to my eye besseae-hybrids have a 'slender' pouch) and my plant has no rosy flowers, it is red with underlying white zones, but no rosé at all. It is very difficult getting the right tone with a photo, for in the morning light the flowers are more red, red-orange, while in the afternoons the bluish red is predominant.
In any case, it will stay 'Andean Fire' now, the most likely (and simple) cross; with an exclamation mark to remember that it could be something else.
Thanks to all of you!
The Mutant
Well-Known Member
They are quite addictive, aren't they? The second bud is about to open on my Sunset Glow now, they are just so FAST compared to Paphs. 
Yours is a cutie pie.
Yours is a cutie pie.
The sixt and last flower from Phragmipedium Andean Fire. In all, just 4 days without flowers (gap between the fifth and this one) 75 days flowering.
Yes, Phrags are addictive, and as you look at the new growth, the size of the plant itself will double soon - at an incredible speed comparing to Paphs!:rollhappy:
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Lovely but, I still say the color and form are not right to be Andean Fire.
This is.
This is.
