NYEric
Well-Known Member
I dream of the day when we can walk into Walmart and see Waunakee Sunsets and other phrags for sale like Phals! 
Phrag. Waunakee Sunset
- Thread starter SlipperFan
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SlipperFan
Addicted
No thanks! Walmart doesn't care about accurate tags or culture -- I don't see how any of the big box stores can ever have the specialty plants we like. I hope we will always have growers like the ones who support this forum.
K
Kevin
Guest
I dream of the day when we can walk into Walmart and see Waunakee Sunsets and other phrags for sale like Phals!
Yes, but first I'd like to see the Garden Centres stock a wide variety of correctly named orchids. That's hard to find here.
G
goldenrose
Guest
Sorry that would be a nightmare!:sob:I dream of the day when we can walk into Walmart and see Waunakee Sunsets and other phrags for sale like Phals!
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I disagree, imagine the river of besseaes or waunakee sunsets on the dinner table!
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Boring
D
Drorchid
Guest
I dream of the day when we can walk into Walmart and see Waunakee Sunsets and other phrags for sale like Phals!
It would put places like us out of business, and then we would not be able to create new things like Phrag. Waunakee Sunset, or Phrag. Inca Rose for people like you...I don't see any breeders who work at Walmart's to create new and exciting hybrids..You will be stuck with the same old mericlones, and after 10 years be bored with them, as nothing new will have been developed...
Robert
NYEric
Well-Known Member
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5124
Not if you could be the producer of the large volume of phrags like in the 3rd photo.
Not if you could be the producer of the large volume of phrags like in the 3rd photo.
D
Drorchid
Guest
Yes, if you would have it your way there would be some big "producers" left, that could produce Phrags in mass quantities, like the big nurseries in the Netherlands (Floricultura) and in Taiwan, and perhaps one or two here in the US, and they would be the ones providing the plants to the Walmarts and the Home Depots, but as there will be less nurseries, there will be less people hybridizing.
I have been to Foricultura; Here is a link to thier website, so you can see how big they are:
http://www.floricultura.nl/page.asp?id=143856&pid=1620&mid=1625
They are one of the largest orchid producing nurseries in Europe, and I would guess their facilities are about 20 times bigger than our nursery. They will have one greenhouse area just with one mericlone of a white phalenopsis, another greenhouse area with one mericlone of a pink phalaenopsis etc etc. All in all they have have 1000's to 10,000's of plants of just one genotype, but they may only be growing 100 to 500 different plants in their entire greenhouse. We on the other hand have probably 6000 different species and hybrids, but of each only have 5 to 200 plants. Floricultura probably only makes a few cents profit on each plant, but as they produce so many plants ,that is how they make their profit.
When it comes to their breeding, they don't use as much creativity as we do (I talked to their breeder, and he said it is not as fun as it would be working for a small nursery like Orchids Limited), they don't have as much freedom when it comes to breeding, and breed solely for the mass market (ease of flowering, ease of transportation, compact size, etc). When you only have a few companies left like Floricultura, there won't be as many breeders left (like myself or Chuck Acker), and so you won't have as much variation in the new hybrids that will be coming on the market. Another thing of concern, is that these "large" nurseries are only interested in hybrids, as they are a lot easier to grow, and usually do not grow as many species to be sold, so they will not even bother with things like besseae, or kovachii. All you will see (if they even have Phrag's) are Don Wimber's, Jason Fischer's or Eric Young's.
That is just my take on things (I am sorry, it seems like we have gotten off the topic of Phrag. Waunakee Sunset)....
Robert (Breeder at Orchids Limited)
I have been to Foricultura; Here is a link to thier website, so you can see how big they are:
http://www.floricultura.nl/page.asp?id=143856&pid=1620&mid=1625
They are one of the largest orchid producing nurseries in Europe, and I would guess their facilities are about 20 times bigger than our nursery. They will have one greenhouse area just with one mericlone of a white phalenopsis, another greenhouse area with one mericlone of a pink phalaenopsis etc etc. All in all they have have 1000's to 10,000's of plants of just one genotype, but they may only be growing 100 to 500 different plants in their entire greenhouse. We on the other hand have probably 6000 different species and hybrids, but of each only have 5 to 200 plants. Floricultura probably only makes a few cents profit on each plant, but as they produce so many plants ,that is how they make their profit.
When it comes to their breeding, they don't use as much creativity as we do (I talked to their breeder, and he said it is not as fun as it would be working for a small nursery like Orchids Limited), they don't have as much freedom when it comes to breeding, and breed solely for the mass market (ease of flowering, ease of transportation, compact size, etc). When you only have a few companies left like Floricultura, there won't be as many breeders left (like myself or Chuck Acker), and so you won't have as much variation in the new hybrids that will be coming on the market. Another thing of concern, is that these "large" nurseries are only interested in hybrids, as they are a lot easier to grow, and usually do not grow as many species to be sold, so they will not even bother with things like besseae, or kovachii. All you will see (if they even have Phrag's) are Don Wimber's, Jason Fischer's or Eric Young's.
That is just my take on things (I am sorry, it seems like we have gotten off the topic of Phrag. Waunakee Sunset)....
Robert (Breeder at Orchids Limited)
NYEric
Well-Known Member
OK, OK, I'll keep my meristem culture tricks secret then! ity:
ity:
SlipperFan
Addicted
That's OK, Robert. This is an important concept. And anyway, it is quite directly related to Waunakee Sunset.
slippertalker
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% with Robert on this topic. We have seen many of the old orchid houses go out of business over the last 25 years or so and it is a big loss for orchid growers. We used to see a lot more hybridizing in the old days before mass mericlones and Home Depot orchids. As a judge, it frankly is quite boring to review plants in the typical show these days with a few exceptions. The vendors are selling many of the same plants as resellers and their products are becoming more homogenous.
With a tight economy and increased energy costs unfortunately this trend will continue with more orchid ventures exiting over the next few years. Not a good trend, and it will further diminish boards like this, local societies, AOS, judging, etc. Hybridizing will be an art limited to those adventurous enough to create their own plants.........
With a tight economy and increased energy costs unfortunately this trend will continue with more orchid ventures exiting over the next few years. Not a good trend, and it will further diminish boards like this, local societies, AOS, judging, etc. Hybridizing will be an art limited to those adventurous enough to create their own plants.........
Phrag-Plus
Well-Known Member
I’m absolutely agreeing with Robert and you Slippertalker, I’m doing hybridization with a real passion and for myself. I was frustrated and tire to wait after resellers for new crosses, and decide to do my own breeding program one day. If I was in a real business, I will not boring myself by taking care of seedpods who gave me only one or two seedlings. But for me those one are the most exciting and worthy one. I should harvest my 700 cross pretty soon and I believe than I’m having now one of the largest and self made collections of Phragmipedium in the world. I’m very proud of it!
D
Drorchid
Guest
You should be !!! :clap::clap::clap::clap:
And I agree with you regarding growing up seedpods that only have one or 2 seedlings that germinated. As an example the Paph. (Meredith Katherine x Magic Leopard) cross that I posted earlier, only had one seedling that germinated! It turned out to be an amazing flower, so it is a good thing I saved it. I talked to one of the biggest Paph/Phrag breeders in the Netherlands, and all he does is primary crosses, as he said that is when he gets the most germination, and the most plants, so he does not even bother with complex crosses.
Robert
e-spice
Well-Known Member
Very pretty. I love the striping on the pouch.
e-spice
e-spice
NYEric
Well-Known Member
That is quite an accomplishment; and as I'm processing my passport paperwork today I hope to be able to come and see it soon!
C
Corbin
Guest
I know this is an older thread but I had to get this in. This has been an informative discussion. Thanks to all. A special thanks to Robert for his remarks regarding the naming of plants. I had the impression, from post where someone would show a flower that received an award and then say something to the effect of, 'I named it ______ ,' that a plant had to be awarded before you could give it a name other than its' species name. I also had the impression that you had to pay (someone but not sure who that was) to register (not necessarily the same as give) a cultivar name.
Tom_in_PA
I am not an addict!
very nice
SlipperFan
Addicted
#9 -- a bit pale, but I do like it!
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Wow that is a lighter one. I got another one in spike in my last OL order, I wonder what color it will be? Yay besseae hybrids!
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