That's back when it was in new, less water retentive mix. The top would dry out every afternoon because of the air from the fan. Right under the surface it was nice and moist.Mahon said:it looks as if it needs a little more water though...
So, if I was to extrapolate the information.... It was Besse, Halton, Luther, Dodson, or Kuhn who over-collected all the plants from the habitat? Cause what your saying is that they are the only people who know where it is. Therefore, if all the plants are gone, it could only have been them who took them all. That's not cool....There are no more plants in Peru, it was from a single site, which is known only to a few people. Orchids Limited is not one of them, unless for some reason a leak in information occured from Besse, Halton, Luther, Dodson, or Kuhn... this can be easily be verified by Dodson and Luther.
Not at all what I am saying. They visited the site only once. The type location for Phrag. besseae is incorrect. The other city they visited was the actual type locality... I shouldn't have been so adament upon there are no plants are left in the true type locality, it is really hard to completely wipe out an entire species from its in situ habitat. There may be a few plants, but not plentiful.Kyle said:So, if I was to extrapolate the information.... It was Besse, Halton, Luther, Dodson, or Kuhn who over-collected all the plants from the habitat? Cause what your saying is that they are the only people who know where it is. Therefore, if all the plants are gone, it could only have been them who took them all. That's not cool....
This was the story that I mentioned that I wouldn't mention... it was specially requested by Besse for it not to mentioned to anyone. I guess it is too late.Kyle said:Further, I will add my bit to the tail of how the plant was discovered: Liz Besse was out collecting plants with a group of people. She had to go to the bathroom so she went away from the group to get a bit of privacy. She squatted, and looked up at a beautiful red flower. The rest is history...
And that is why I added the statement that there is a lot at stake for the originators of the story.gonewild said:But written documentation is no more a guarantee to accuracy either is it?
Just to clear up the above statement, The besseaes I have seen growing at Ecuagenera, are of Ecuadorian origin. I'm not 100%, but pretty sure.PHRAG said:It also has a longer pouch according to Kyle, who has seen them in bloom side by side with dalessandroi. See his photo above.
Do you know if it had a clonal name? If so I can verrify where it came from (I can ask Jerry). I do know that Jerry got some plants back in the 80's from both Ecuador and from Peru (and they are not man made hybrids). At the time they were all considered to be Phrag. besseae, but that does not mean that the ones from Peru may have been Phrag. dalessandroi.PHRAG said:Jerry Fischer sold me the division of the above plant, and I gave a couple of growths to Zach. If that isn't enough of a history to make this discussion interesting, I don't know what is.
Yes it is entirely possible someone found it growing beside the road. You must consider that "beside the road" in the cloud forest of Peru is a different situation than the "beside the road" we have here here in our temperate climate.SlipperFan said:And that is why I added the statement that there is a lot at stake for the originators of the story.
I just find it difficult to believe, considering the photos I've seen of besseae in her habitat, that someone could simply find one along side a road.
But you were there, Lance. What do you think?
No, I've not been to the besseae habitat. It is farther north than where I lived. But now with all these unanswered questions, I feel compelled to go see for myself, maybe in February. I would love to see your habitat photos.Kyle said:Lance, do you have any pictures of besseaes in Peru, I would like to compare what the habitats look like. Last month I was able to see the Paute population of besseae and was suprised to find it drier and more overgrown then the population I was used to seeing elsewhere in Ecuador. I'll post some pictures in a new thread later tonight.
If in fact your plant is from Peru, it is illegal. But of course, we know (including Dodson) that the species is not existent in Peru anymore...PHRAG said:Hi Robert,
I asked Jerry for a division of besseae, and he sold me the plant that was pictured above called 'Peru 1988'. It was my understanding that it was a collected plant from Peru (purchased legally), and I still believe this to be true according to what others have told me about besseae.
Visit the habitat before you make assumptions about the possibility of specie variations.Mahon said:And to think that the Peruvian population was different from the Ecuadorian populations is ridiculus... the split between Ecuador and Peru is merely artificial...
I will end here and wait for other replies...
I am not making an assumption... I am going off the information regarded in the type specimen, and the species description of Phrag. besseae. The species description refers to the Holotype having stolons.gonewild said:Visit the habitat before you make assumptions about the possibility of specie variations.
Ask your info providers (including Dodson) if they know for a fact besseae does not exist in Peru. Perhaps you are taking information that is assumed to be true and accepting it as a fact of certainty.Mahon said:If in fact your plant is from Peru, it is illegal. But of course, we know (including Dodson) that the species is not existent in Peru anymore...