Phal problem

[OrchidIsa]

Here are three of my last phals. I put all my others in the garbage (and so my oncidium papillio and my superb asco mikasa blue) because of something like that. Can somebody tell me what's the problem here and how can I solve this before all of them die??!

There is a bellina, a violacea HP Norton and a corningiana.

 

[Hera]

I've been experiencing this with all of my phals and I've lost all 25 of them. No one has been able to pinpoint the cause. They tested negative for all the commonly tested viruses. The nearest we've come up with is some kind of microfungus but fungicides haven't stopped it either so basically I'm stumped and have written off phals from my collection. Maybe someone else will chime in with a different idea I haven't thought of. Sorry.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Mesophyll cell collapse? I certainly wouldn't throw those plants out.

 

[mormodes]

I've been experiencing this with all of my phals and I've lost all 25 of them. No one has been able to pinpoint the cause. They tested negative for all the commonly tested viruses. The nearest we've come up with is some kind of microfungus but fungicides haven't stopped it either so basically I'm stumped and have written off phals from my collection. Maybe someone else will chime in with a different idea I haven't thought of. Sorry.

Ditto.

 

[ALToronto]

Nearly all my phals are like that. I've only thrown away one, the rest are too valuable to me. I tend to lean toward mesophyll cell collapse, since my other orchids are not affected. It has been cold this winter. I'm hoping that their strong root systems will carry them through, and I'll try to keep them warmer next winter.

 

[lepetitmartien]

There's signs of deficiencies (chlorotic lines) => change the diet now
You've got something around Ca, Mg, Zn… that is not at the level it should.

There's also brevipalpus the nasty acarian that can be gooning here… check

 

[Wendy]

I lost most of my Phal collection to micro fungus years ago. It was horrible and not curable no matter how hard I tried. Here's a link to a great article on it...... http://www.orchidmall.com/general/microfun.htm It may or may not be what you have but an interesting read regardless.

 

[OrchidIsa]

Thanks Wendy! I read it all. Very interesting! I'm devastated, just like my phals. I will see how it goes in a few weeks and maybe do just like you did: garbage :sob:

 

[gonewild]

It looks Nutrient related to me.

Not likely fungal because of the interveinal chlorosis that has a specific pattern.

Micro fungal is misleading because pretty much all fungal infections are micro.

What does a plant look like that is bad enough to throw away?

If this were an infectious disease affecting specifically phalaenopsis there should be a lot of mention of it within commercial growers and I don't see any.

Look at your nutrient levels for an answer, either a deficiency or toxicity.

 

[lepetitmartien]

So called microfungus is misleading, it's (for me, given my winter adventures) brevipalpus + fungus associated + eventually if you're really lucky Orchid Fleck Virus (OFV). If only the 2 first are around, there's a chance.

I'm sure there's clearly a deficiency here, but the spots in the middle of some leaves are bothering me.

 

[gonewild]

but the spots in the middle of some leaves are bothering me.

The spots seem to be organized in "rows" following the veins. I think fungal would be more random.

Also there seems to be longitudinal color striping n the larger leaf.

Why are the leaf tips cut off?

 

[lepetitmartien]

The stripping is on all leaves, save the brand new ones. That's for the defficiencies.

The line of spots in the gutter can be either a consequence of the deficiencies to a high level. Or the causeway of the acarians, fungis following them. Sometimes they follow a line, another time they colonize a patch… Depends of the mood.

Anyway, right now, what should be done first things first is a change to the feeding (advices?) and something against mites in case there's some. So that the urgent is covered imho.

Bring out the epsom salts!

 

[ALToronto]

I've done 4 weekly sprays with SucraShield, which is supposed to kill mites, and the leaves keep degrading. So now I'll try adding more tap water for the minerals. I hope I can save them; some are in a really bad shape - my only hope would be a basal keiki. Does anyone have suggestions on how to start one?

 

[lepetitmartien]

It's up to the phal to start one. You can't promote it.

How were you watering? Water and fert.

Btw I did a bit of homework, and microfungi exist (kept reading it didn't). It's a paraphyletic group of fungi causing sometimes plant diseases (mold, mildew, rusts, rice blast, elm disease, phytophtora, botrytis…), sometimes lifesavers (blue cheese, penicillium). Now to tell if what we cal microfungus is really one and which one…

ALToronto, sucrashield cares about the mites and soft body arthropods. It won't do one cent against a deficiency or a fungus or a virus. We're pretty adamant on the deficiency, just wondering about what's way not be one.

 

[gonewild]

I sent the picture to a Phal producer in Taiwan and asked his opinion. This is his reply....

"At first glance I thought that the plant might have a virus, but this would have to be tested.
It does look like a bacterial/fungal attack, which could be the result of water sitting on the leaves for too long overnight.

For now I would keep them away from all other plants to avoid spreading of any disease.
Your friend should also wash his hands afterwards before touching other plants. I will pass your photo on to see what our growers think.

Species and primary hybrids are more susceptible, so they need a good temperature (not too hot, not too cold) and aeration."

Let's see if any growers know what the problem is.

If anyone has pictures of the problem in a more advanced stage it would help.

 

[OrchidIsa]

The spots seem to be organized in "rows" following the veins. I think fungal would be more random.

Also there seems to be longitudinal color striping n the larger leaf.

Why are the leaf tips cut off?

I cut the tips when the problem started. I thought maybe cutting where there was something weird helped not spreading the disease and put some cinnamon on the edges... I don't know if it was a good idea but wanted to try something

 

[OrchidIsa]

Today's pictures:

 

[lepetitmartien]

How old is the sphagnum? Is it Chile or NZ? If Chile, was it washed of salts?

The new leaves are clearly chlorotic too. And necrotic spots are clearly appearing to.

 

[OrchidIsa]

How old is the sphagnum? Is it Chile or NZ? If Chile, was it washed of salts?

The moss in only a few months old and it's NZ.

 

[gonewild]

It seems a number of growers have or have had this problem. I tried searching other forums but all seem to have a dead end without any result.

There are several mentions about testing negative for virus. Does anyone know what viruses were tested for?

It seems perhaps only common viruses were targeted in the tests?
If this is a virus it certainly is not a common one so I'm changing my opinion from nutrient to viral infection.

From the time symptoms are first noticed until plant death...how much time?

Someone please post a picture of a plant that was thrown away because of this problem. What does a decomposing leaf look like/