Paphiopedilum Leeanum albescens
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To me, it looks like Paphiopedilum Aureum, a cross between Nitens (insigne x villosum) and spicerianum. But it could be Thompsonii (Calypso x villosum) as well. Check http://slipperorchids.info/paphcomplex/EarlyComplex/
Ozpaph
Well-Known Member
it does look to have spicerianum in the dorsal. Id be interested to know the parents. I assume the spierianum isnt 'album', as i dont think there are any
Baarts
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My friend has done considerable research on this particular plant and she is familiar with the collection from which the plant was obtained...in fact it is very likely that over 30 years ago, she gave this division away to the grower....anyways....these are her discoveries...
Brenda,
Great photos thank you. In the 1970’s Ray Rands was importing species from all over the world. While most growers were after the large Bulldog type some of us liked the primaries better. He started the trend with his species crosses and I was ordering them.
The one parent has to be spicerianum, the dorsal folds back at the base, the brown lines middle of each petal and the base of the leaves are spotted maroon.
So the other parent has to be an albino that would knock out most of the red/brown of the spicerianum.
Going through the old Rands orders I found it!!!! It is insigne sanderae x spicerianum . Rands was using a particularly good insigne sanderae in his crosses, to remove most of the red/brown, and survive all these years!
It is paph Leeanum album? form. ( insigne sanderae x spicerianum.) Also I don’t know the correct albino term to use on the label.
Ozpaph and fibre....let me know your thoughts on the above if you have a moment.
Brenda,
Great photos thank you. In the 1970’s Ray Rands was importing species from all over the world. While most growers were after the large Bulldog type some of us liked the primaries better. He started the trend with his species crosses and I was ordering them.
The one parent has to be spicerianum, the dorsal folds back at the base, the brown lines middle of each petal and the base of the leaves are spotted maroon.
So the other parent has to be an albino that would knock out most of the red/brown of the spicerianum.
Going through the old Rands orders I found it!!!! It is insigne sanderae x spicerianum . Rands was using a particularly good insigne sanderae in his crosses, to remove most of the red/brown, and survive all these years!
It is paph Leeanum album? form. ( insigne sanderae x spicerianum.) Also I don’t know the correct albino term to use on the label.
Ozpaph and fibre....let me know your thoughts on the above if you have a moment.
Ozpaph
Well-Known Member
make sense to be 'sanderae' X spicerianum
Happypaphy7
Paphlover
Paphiopedilum insigne saderae is not an album. It is a green/white flower with tiny spots on the dorsal sepal near the base.
The album variety of the species is sanderianum which has no dark pigments at all.
Either way, the flower above, I would think is a cross between spicerianum x villosum. Just my opinion, though. Does she see spicerianum x villosum on that list from Ray Rands at all??
Such wide petals typically comes from villosum.
Insigne and spicerianum both have a lot narrower petals.
The album variety of the species is sanderianum which has no dark pigments at all.
Either way, the flower above, I would think is a cross between spicerianum x villosum. Just my opinion, though. Does she see spicerianum x villosum on that list from Ray Rands at all??
Such wide petals typically comes from villosum.
Insigne and spicerianum both have a lot narrower petals.
Baarts
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Morning Happy Paphy...this was in her
Communication to me
As well ... She refers to villosum...
( insigne sanderae x spicerianum.) I never ordered any crosses with villosum or we would have had a serious problem, because Lathamianum looks almost the same. ( I actually checked all the old orders to make sure.) Also I don’t know the correct albino term to use on the label.
To me there is no doubt at all, villosum is heavily involved in this hybrid: the shape of the pouch, the shape of the staminodium with the green knob, the petals.
And to get the flower as pale as it is you most probably have to add insigne 'Sanderae' to the mix. So you get Nitens, a pale Nitens because insigne 'Sanderae' is able to 'suppress' reds in the flower. If you have a look at a standard Nitens, you see that they sometimes have a dark line in the middle of the dorsal. This line comes from villosum, as well as the reflexed base of the dorsal.
Maybe we can judge the flower better when it is fully opened.
And to get the flower as pale as it is you most probably have to add insigne 'Sanderae' to the mix. So you get Nitens, a pale Nitens because insigne 'Sanderae' is able to 'suppress' reds in the flower. If you have a look at a standard Nitens, you see that they sometimes have a dark line in the middle of the dorsal. This line comes from villosum, as well as the reflexed base of the dorsal.
Maybe we can judge the flower better when it is fully opened.
Baarts
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Thanks for your input. My friend who is very well versed in orchids period including paphiopedilums today sent me the following notes.....
If the sanderae form is albescent, it is actually a stronger argument in support of Leeanum than if a true albino had been used. I am In support of the opinion of Leeanum with an exceptional insigne sanderae parent.
Regardless this plant is almost 40 years old and is blooming well, I will likely be sending it in for judging this comings weekend. If nothing else it will be a conversation piece …..again thanks for your thoughts.
If the sanderae form is albescent, it is actually a stronger argument in support of Leeanum than if a true albino had been used. I am In support of the opinion of Leeanum with an exceptional insigne sanderae parent.
Regardless this plant is almost 40 years old and is blooming well, I will likely be sending it in for judging this comings weekend. If nothing else it will be a conversation piece …..again thanks for your thoughts.
Happypaphy7
Paphlover
Due to similarity, without the tags, it can't be determined for sure. It could be Leeanum. It could be Lathamianum. I would feel much more comfortable with Lathamianum but again, due to similarity and variability among individuals within the grex, it is not easy to say for sure.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Congrats! I'll take it. 
Baarts
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Two things...those that questioned...were right....further investigation has shown that this plant is Lathamianum albescens...thanks everyone for your input & good eye for detail. The CCM was clawed back as well...because I am a few months shy of having owned for a year....so....here's hoping it blooms well in years to come.
Ozpaph
Well-Known Member
congratulations. I can see the villosum in there, too.
