Paph Magic Lantern x godfroyae var. ang-thong

[Ozpaph]

Trithor, I cant see any micranthum, either for what it's worth.

 

[Trithor]

Trithor, I cant see any micranthum, either for what it's worth.

whew! I thought I was alone in this! A little more crazy than I already am, day by day:crazy:

 

[abax]

Trithor, I've been crazy for years and years. It doesn't hurt too much. What might one look for to indicate the micranthum influence? Perhaps
my plant is mislabeled for all I know on this subject. I'm here to learn
as well.

 

[Trithor]

Trithor, I've been crazy for years and years. It doesn't hurt too much. What might one look for to indicate the micranthum influence? Perhaps
my plant is mislabeled for all I know on this subject. I'm here to learn
as well.

You and me both! That is why I keep on returning to this thread (I think the bloom is a stunner. I have always stayed away from these plants as I have always pictured the result to be different in my mind. But if this is how they turn out, I need to revisit my opinion on them. I would love to have a plant like this in my collection. I have been hoping that someone would post a pic of a bloom with similar breeding in another thread, but nothing as of yet. Pictures of these are scarce on the net as well. Perhaps the scarcity of these blooms makes the picture in this thread all that more exceptional) There is something about this bloom which I find very appealing.

 

[Leo Schordje]

It is true the micranthum is not at all obvious. Recessive genes. Also we are looking at photos, on computer or laptop screens. Details are lost.

This is part of the fun of hybridizing, some species just seem to disappear, some seem very dominant. Hybridizing does not work like photoshop program.

If you look at other brachy hybrids, the brachy's as a group really do dominate color background wise. And they dominate shape wise, it is not surprising that the 25% micranthum is not readily visible.

 

[John M]

Really, I intend what follows as a friendly helpful criticism. In fact everyone has been polite, which I commend highly. Trithor is not the only one, nor the worst offender for this comment. His post was convenient, I selected it for this comment, mostly out of convenience, I'm not singling him out. Most doing the comments are valuable contributors to this forum, I am not flaming any one individual. In several recent threads some of you have questioned provenance of hybrids that to my eye look correctly identified. I say this from my 40+ years of orchid experience, at least 20+ years as part time business and lecturer. I have done some hybridizing with paphs over the years, registered my first orchid hybrid in 1988. I think I know a little about orchid hybridizing.

First, it is perfectly okay to question the identity of a cross once. But please, before you insist that a plant couldn't be a certain cross, I urge you to buy a flask of a paph hybrid cross, best if one parent is a hybrid itself, though some primaries are quite variable. Grow out at least 12 seedlings to blooming, 25 would be better, but takes space. Compare all 12 seedlings and make notes for yourself on how much variation there is. Once you see how variable seedlings from hybrids can be, you will relax, and be more willing to accept other peoples labels on their plants.

If the grower/poster is confident the provenance of his cross is correct, accept it at face value. Hybrids are quite variable. Most of you don't realize just how variable a hybrid can be, even primary hybrids. There is an "average" look to most hybrids, and if you only bloom or see one or two of a cross, you won't get a feel for the variation. But the variation is there, and sometimes one gets lucky and a purchase of just 2 plants might capture the extremes in variation. To get a good feel of the grex variation, one really has to see a larger number of the seedlings bloom, 25 or more is ideal.

You are all good growers, you are all valuable contributors to this forum, but you need to see more groups of seedlings from the same cross bloom to get a better feel for what is the normal range of variation one can expect from seed pod. Many of you seem to think all the seedlings should look like a photoshop merge of the parents. Dominant, recessive, co-dominant, partial expression, suppressors, intensifiers, and distribution genes don't act like a photoshop merger program. They will not all come out looking the same.

I completely agree with Leo here. With all due respect to everyone participating in this thread, a lot of you just don't have the years of experience and you've not seen many if any, large groups of seedlings grown up to maturity together. All the Internet chatting you do and looking at photos on Orchid forums doesn't even begin to rival the decades of practical experience and seeing large groups of seedlings grow up and bloom, IN PERSON. All of the people saying things like "I don't see (this or that), in this flower, need to reread Leo's comments and really absorb what he's saying. These are the words of a vast amount of practical experience.....a valuable resource that should not be so easily overlooked. Even after Leo's post, some people still made comments indicating that they expect all flowers of this cross to look like Photoshop merged photos (Good analogy Leo!), with the offspring being equally influenced by each parent. Genetics just doesn't work like that. If it did, I wouldn't have a nephew with dark brown hair, a nephew with light blond hair and a nephew with flaming red hair! They don't even look related to each other! But, all 3 have the same 2 parents. Wild variation like that happens with plants too, especially when one or both of the parents are hybrids.

BTW: Ed, this is a really nice flower...maybe not an award winner; but, very attractive regardless. I'd be happy to have it in my collectiion....and I'd have no problem believing the name label. The foliage pic certainly shows some micranthum influence, even if it is mostly lost in the flower.

 

[Trithor]

It is true the micranthum is not at all obvious. Recessive genes. Also we are looking at photos, on computer or laptop screens. Details are lost.

This is part of the fun of hybridizing, some species just seem to disappear, some seem very dominant. Hybridizing does not work like photoshop program.

If you look at other brachy hybrids, the brachy's as a group really do dominate color background wise. And they dominate shape wise, it is not surprising that the 25% micranthum is not readily visible.

Leo, would you object if I communicate with you via PM, I feel kind of silly continuing to chase this in plain sight. Would you object to me posing a few questions to you which you could reply to at your leisure, or not? My query has never been confrontational, only focused at learning more, and I would appreciate if you would consider assisting?