Paph Magic Lantern x godfroyae var. ang-thong

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edkravcik

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First bloom seedling originally from Cloud's.

Open for a month when picture was taken. The spots came through over time but the flower originally opened almost pure white. Flower is 7 cm across and the plant is not much larger

I have a second plant of the cross as well. It came through with virtually no spotting at all even as the flower aged
 

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I am somewhat suprised at the result, especially if its sibling had no spotting at all. How sure are you of the label. I don't know much about the breeding in this group. I would have expected a lot more parvi influence, with a rose ground and red pink veining:confused:
 
That is what i was hoping for as well.

I am fairly certain of the cross. Both of my plants had similar flowers except for the spotting and I saw one at Clouds a month or two ago that was similar. All had the same label

The godfroyae bleached out not only the colour but most of the micranthum striping
 
Nice flower. Though i have to say its mislabelled as well. It's obviously a purely brachy cross. Looks like there's niveum in it as well. I buy from clouds a lot as well. And I have a plant that looks mislabelled. These things happen.
 
perhaps delenatii x godefroyae? But as I said earlier where Parvi/Brachy are concerned, I know near on Zero. The experts might still say it is correctly labelled, but if so micranthum has had minute influence. Are there any photos around of ML crossed with Brachys to compare with?
 
You would have thought this would look similar to Vanda M Pearman (bellatulum x delenatii). Here is mine below. Looks very different. Do you have photos of the leaves?


 
I have attached a pic of the leaves as well as the plant tag

I still think it is accurately labelled. The leaves have a parvi look to them and there is the faintest suggestion of micranthum like striping in the flower petals
 

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I am somewhat suprised at the result, especially if its sibling had no spotting at all. How sure are you of the label. I don't know much about the breeding in this group. I would have expected a lot more parvi influence, with a rose ground and red pink veining:confused:

Really, I intend what follows as a friendly helpful criticism. In fact everyone has been polite, which I commend highly. Trithor is not the only one, nor the worst offender for this comment. His post was convenient, I selected it for this comment, mostly out of convenience, I'm not singling him out. Most doing the comments are valuable contributors to this forum, I am not flaming any one individual. In several recent threads some of you have questioned provenance of hybrids that to my eye look correctly identified. I say this from my 40+ years of orchid experience, at least 20+ years as part time business and lecturer. I have done some hybridizing with paphs over the years, registered my first orchid hybrid in 1988. I think I know a little about orchid hybridizing.

First, it is perfectly okay to question the identity of a cross once. But please, before you insist that a plant couldn't be a certain cross, I urge you to buy a flask of a paph hybrid cross, best if one parent is a hybrid itself, though some primaries are quite variable. Grow out at least 12 seedlings to blooming, 25 would be better, but takes space. Compare all 12 seedlings and make notes for yourself on how much variation there is. Once you see how variable seedlings from hybrids can be, you will relax, and be more willing to accept other peoples labels on their plants.

If the grower/poster is confident the provenance of his cross is correct, accept it at face value. Hybrids are quite variable. Most of you don't realize just how variable a hybrid can be, even primary hybrids. There is an "average" look to most hybrids, and if you only bloom or see one or two of a cross, you won't get a feel for the variation. But the variation is there, and sometimes one gets lucky and a purchase of just 2 plants might capture the extremes in variation. To get a good feel of the grex variation, one really has to see a larger number of the seedlings bloom, 25 or more is ideal.

You are all good growers, you are all valuable contributors to this forum, but you need to see more groups of seedlings from the same cross bloom to get a better feel for what is the normal range of variation one can expect from seed pod. Many of you seem to think all the seedlings should look like a photoshop merge of the parents. Dominant, recessive, co-dominant, partial expression, suppressors, intensifiers, and distribution genes don't act like a photoshop merger program. They will not all come out looking the same.
 
I apologise, it was not intended as criticism, but as a question. I repeatedly indicated that I do not know much about this group of plants, and in so doing hoped that someone who knows more would correct or confirm the identity and give reasons for doing so, and in so doing give us all a chance to learn more. I shall refrain from further questions Leo, again I apologise.:eek::(
 
Cloud's orchids sold Uneme also. Here is mine. I think it could be this cross but of course it could be Magic Lantern x godefroyae too..

Paph. Uneme (Paph. S. Gratrix x Paph. delenatii)
PaphiopedilumUneme_web.jpg
 
I apologise, it was not intended as criticism, but as a question. I repeatedly indicated that I do not know much about this group of plants, and in so doing hoped that someone who knows more would correct or confirm the identity and give reasons for doing so, and in so doing give us all a chance to learn more. I shall refrain from further questions Leo, again I apologise.:eek::(

No harm, no worries, we are good. :)

The original (Magic Lantern x godefroyae var ang thong) label looks correct to me.

the godefroyae var ang thong is believed to be a hybrid swarm, a natural group where there is some mixing between godefroyae and niveum. A hybrid from it could favor niveum traits, or it could favor godefroyae traits. And of course Magic Lantern as a parent could give you seedlings that favor delenatii, or micranthum, so you have quite a mix of genetics in this cross.
 
I think the label is correct too. I just bloomed In-Charm Cloud (In-Charm
White 'Hsiao x godefroyae var ang thong fma alba 'Sogo') and considering variations in genetic background, this bloom looks very much like mine. I
don't have Leo's expertise, of course.
 
I think the label is correct too. I just bloomed In-Charm Cloud (In-Charm
White 'Hsiao x godefroyae var ang thong fma alba 'Sogo') and considering variations in genetic background, this bloom looks very much like mine. I
don't have Leo's expertise, of course.

Where is the micranthum component in In-Charm White? It was the micranthum component of ML that I was querying (not disputing) I have to be honest, I still don't see any influence of micranthum, delenatii yes, but not micranthum. But as I indicated before I am no expert, only trying to learn, but with each successive reply to this post, I become more confused, as each time someone says it looks similar to another bloom, it is to one without micranthum (VMP, In-Charm Cloud):confused:
 
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