Paph. gigantifolium & CITES

[Kevin]

I have heard that being a "rescue center" is not much of an opportunity. Sometimes they have been overwhelmed with large confiscations of hybrid phals. rather than endangered species.

I agree. As with what happened here, the 'rescue centre' is stuck with plants that they either don't have the time, facilities, or people to maintain. It might be a good idea if the 'rescue centre' could choose which plants they get to 'rescue', so there is a better chance of doing just that.

 

[Rick]

Unless you live outside the U.S. I haven't got the latest issue yet. Interesting article, though.

I think Goldenrose posted the article in its entirety (it is only a paragraph), so you don't need the whole OD at this point.

 

[Rick]

I agree. As with what happened here, the 'rescue centre' is stuck with plants that they either don't have the time, facilities, or people to maintain. It might be a good idea if the 'rescue centre' could choose which plants they get to 'rescue', so there is a better chance of doing just that.

That would be good, but unfortunately I think it would be impossible to get a contract that didn't include rescuing everything that got thrown your way.

Without a SSP type system "orchids are orchids" and institutions don't have much pick and choose over what they have to admit into their rescue programs.

At the very least they should be left with a better system to move the hybrid material out of their facilities faster.

I guess this leaves some catch 22's that are different from the zoo world.
With fish, frogs, and snakes there was no significant interest in hybridization compared to the orchid world, and subsequently no commercial interest in hybrid fish and frogs. However in the orchid world, there is definitely a commercial interest in hybrids. On the other hand, hybrids are definitely captive/seed produced and can be accomplished with neglibable impact on wild populations of "species". So I think it should be unnecessary for CITES to get all over the orchid biz over hybrids except that it points to sources of collected plants (evidence), and causes severe identity issues in the inspection of shipments.

 

[Hera]

Well this has certainly been an interesting and educational conversation.

 

[NYEric]

More CITES crap!

 

[nikv]

I cannot believe that the FWS is basically saying that they made a mistake nine years ago and now they're reversing their decision. Too bad the military didn't do the same before invading Iraq. Now that would have been a decision that I could support.

 

[practicallyostensible]

God, when will the BS end? Poor Sam.

 

[goldenrose]

:clap::clap:yeah Nik!
There really ought to be a statue of limitations.
Did they visit others holding permits or just Sam? (assuming there was a complaint they had to investigate.) Are there any awarded gigantifoliums? gig hybrids? Ahhhh another can of worms to open!

 

[emydura]

The whole thing is just bizarre. Even stranger given nowhere else in the world has the same policy. The rest of the world has had easy access to gigantifoliums, helenae's etc for ages. What are the US authorities even trying to achieve? From a conservation standpoint it is pointless.

David

 

[NYEric]

At the 2008 Orlando Slipper Symposium I asked if an organized effort was being made by the commercial slipper growers to contact and inform the government of the detrimental effects of the current policies but my question was shot-down! I guess it'll take a bunch of slippers being seized from all the major growers for something to be done! Oh I can see it now; "all besseae and her hybrids are illegal and must be confiscated!" :sob:

 

[Elena]

What complete lunacy. I feel for Sam, how incredibly frustrating to be in a situation like that and suddenly lose years worth of work because someone else decided that they screwed up almost a decade ago. Urgh!

 

[PaphMadMan]

Are there any awarded gigantifoliums? gig hybrids? Ahhhh another can of worms to open!

Unless there is something very recent, looks like no AOS awards to gigantifolium or either of the registered hybrids, (x haynaldianum = Demmel's Spring Sensation), (x roth = Hung Sheng Eagle).

 

[bench72]

i'm sorry to hear about this development, and hope the effect isn't too detrimental to Sam's business.

is there anything that the orchid growing community do as far as changing the legislation or even the way it is executed? Would writing a letter to the elected representatives , maybe getting a petition going at least get this issue into the agenda?

the implication are both environmentally and economically sound by

a) allowing US nurseries to have access to these plants increasing their ability to compete in the greater world economy
b) allows the increase of the species by seed propagation

the changes need only be to allow lab propagated plants to be imported/exported without CITES docs e.g. if plants imported by flask that way it's definitely lab propagated.

 

[likespaphs]

i'm a little late to the conversation but i believe that rescue centers can never sell the original plants they receive. if the plants die, oh well, they tried. they can sell divisions of the originals and seed grown offspring, i think.

 

[SlipperKing]

i'm a little late to the conversation but i believe that rescue centers can never sell the original plants they receive. if the plants die, oh well, they tried. they can sell divisions of the originals and seed grown offspring, i think.

If Bob (Antec) is a round he would know, since they where (are) one.

 

[Rick]

If Bob (Antec) is a round he would know, since they where (are) one.

They definitely have sold seedlings of vietnamense.

I thought I heard that helenae (or hybrids of) were in the pipeline too.

 

[SlipperKing]

i'm a little late to the conversation but i believe that rescue centers can never sell the original plants they receive. if the plants die, oh well, they tried. they can sell divisions of the originals and seed grown offspring, i think.

I believe this to be true. Also, the centers have a responsibility to return the original plants to their homeland. (yeah right!)

 

[likespaphs]

the centers don't have a responsibility. i think that the first thing after the plants are discovered is that they are offered to be returned to the country of origin. if the country of origin doesn't want them, then they go to the rescue centers.

 

[Kavanaru]

the centers don't have a responsibility. i think that the first thing after the plants are discovered is that they are offered to be returned to the country of origin. if the country of origin doesn't want them, then they go to the rescue centers.

...and do they become suddenly legal (everybody tried to do their best to send them back and the homeland did not want them back - this legally would be like accepting they are legally expatriated!), or they just stay in the "twilight Zone" of burocracy?

 

[Bob Wellenstein]

If people will be patient I'll explain the rescue center/propagation etc stuff in a day or so when I have a bit of time before it goes too far off track. In the meantime, if the plants of gigantifolium in question are from the importations a few years back for which a fellow in HI (I can't remember his name exactly but it was something like Neil Oyuoma) went to jail for, FWL declared the plants illegal and attempted to recover as many as possible at that time, this also included dozens or more of sanderianum. Leo, you told me the story regarding this and the person in question, and I understand your hesitance in coming forward, but maybe in the interest of less bashing of Uncle Sam and more proper understanding, you should tell the forum what you told me about this. Perhaps they flowered out the plant(s) they were given and got pretty pissed? At any rate, I do not have it first hand, perhaps Leo will tell the story. The "word on the street" rarely if ever contains the whole truth. I will stick to what I can explain which is the Plant Rescue System. I will add a little tease in that gigantifolium has been in the rescue system for several years now, and hangianum is also.