Neofinetia x Darwinara hybrid

Slippertalk Orchid Forum

Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:

N

neo-guy

Guest
I picked up several of these hybrid seedlings:

Neofinetia falcata x Darwinara Charm

It's amazing how close they look to Neofinetia.

Here's one that came out pink with a white lip!

 

philoserenus

the beauty of nature
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
320
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Ontario.
haha looks for purple to me than pink, but itz all good. still looks quite nice i say. but it is interesting to see a white lip amongst purple petals, haha
 
J

Jorch

Guest
I like it! It looks like a giant form of Benizume :clap:
 
G

Grandma M

Guest
A real Beauty. I love both the color and the white lip.
 

rdlsreno

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
3,807
Reaction score
2
Location
Reno, NV
Neos are very dominant in breeding especially on primary crosses. Nice!!!


Ramon:)
 

Roth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
1,208
Reaction score
1
Interesting...it really does make you wonder about some the purple "fuukiran" circulating around...
It has been claimed for years that some of the fuukiran colors comes from breeding neos with other species. I believe it... That's why I would never buy the colored neos, as there is no way to tell which ones are hybrids, but my guess is that it's the majority.
 
N

neo-guy

Guest
Current speculation is that only the yellows are of suspect ancestry. I think the pink and green could be pure varieties? Who knows....still all very lovely in my opinion!
Peter.
 

KyushuCalanthe

Just call me Tom
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
145
Location
Kyushu, Japan; warm temperate/subtropical climate
Current speculation is that only the yellows are of suspect ancestry. I think the pink and green could be pure varieties? Who knows....still all very lovely in my opinion!
Peter.
Hey Peter, I've talked to a number of growers about this, most of them local guys with little to gain monetarily from lying to me, and the response I've gotten is consistent with your statement. However, I also have talked to some very knowledgeable growers who feel that by and large, all the colored neos are of hybrid origin except the green flowered ones. Notable exceptions would be 'seikai' and 'shunkyuden' with their strange flowers and pink to pinkish color. The jury is still out on this issue and may never be fully answered publically.

Still, some types such as 'benisuzume' are suspect in my mind - the flowers look so much like the cross you show here and the plant is extremely vigorous for a neofinetia in both growth and flowers. Smells like hybrid vigor to me. On the other hand, 'shuttenou' was supposedly first found on Shikoku with the vast majority of the plants grown these days not from divisions, but rather by seed. These seedlings are said to be much more vigorous in growth than the old divisions from the original collection. That too is curious to me.

As far as I know all yellow 'fuukiran' are hybrids. I've even heard stories of plants that were grown in laboratories, planted out in the wild as seedlings, and then "discovered" and collected by growers to be sold as select, new, wild yellow flowered plants! Hmm... the truth is that the history of fuukiran collecting is peppered with such stories. When you mix prestige, money, and one up-manship together your bound to run into trouble eventually.

Still, I love all my fuukiran, no matter what!

Tom
 
N

neo-guy

Guest
Actually that's not how it works with genetics. Just because the parent and grand parent are the species, it does not necessarily mean the progeny will look like the species. The one parent (Dar. Charm) has 6 species in it, including Vanda sanderiana 3 times!
Peter.
 

Roth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
1,208
Reaction score
1
Hey Peter, I've talked to a number of growers about this, most of them local guys with little to gain monetarily from lying to me, and the response I've gotten is consistent with your statement. However, I also have talked to some very knowledgeable growers who feel that by and large, all the colored neos are of hybrid origin except the green flowered ones. Notable exceptions would be 'seikai' and 'shunkyuden' with their strange flowers and pink to pinkish color. The jury is still out on this issue and may never be fully answered publically.

Still, some types such as 'benisuzume' are suspect in my mind - the flowers look so much like the cross you show here and the plant is extremely vigorous for a neofinetia in both growth and flowers. Smells like hybrid vigor to me. On the other hand, 'shuttenou' was supposedly first found on Shikoku with the vast majority of the plants grown these days not from divisions, but rather by seed. These seedlings are said to be much more vigorous in growth than the old divisions from the original collection. That too is curious to me.

As far as I know all yellow 'fuukiran' are hybrids. I've even heard stories of plants that were grown in laboratories, planted out in the wild as seedlings, and then "discovered" and collected by growers to be sold as select, new, wild yellow flowered plants! Hmm... the truth is that the history of fuukiran collecting is peppered with such stories. When you mix prestige, money, and one up-manship together your bound to run into trouble eventually.

Still, I love all my fuukiran, no matter what!

Tom
About the fact that those people have no gian to lye to you, it's wrong. No one want to make it public, or they do not have the knowledge and follow the "vox populi"...

I will try to be polite regarding the fu(censored)kiran... To my mind there are 2 problems, massive, with those plants :

* Seedlings are sold with funny clonal name. To me, seedlings are worth not that much, for one reason, they are easy to make. It is like if I cross my best delenatii, and give immediately any plantlet a funny name, japanese style please, and try to sell to bozo at expensive price... Sometimes the seedlings have the same clonal name as their parents ( OK, they will talk about classification, but then, a seed-grown plant would not have that much value !).

* Color can appear once in the world, but it is extremely, extremely rare. Think about the Madagascan species. We know of only 1 orange angraecum sesquipedale, worldwide, out of many hundreds of thousands of plants collected. No angraecum is known to have any color form if the standard for the species is white... except that all can have a pure green color form. Those findings are consistant with the growers that claim that the only neos that are really pure species are white or green. There can be 1 orange one, but not many colors like that.

* I have seen huge, huge batches of neos from the wild in China. Of course they are not the same type as the Japanese ones ( though many of the japanese strains come from china, in truth. I have seen a famous neos grower from Japan going to Xi Lang get their load of plants, and sort out bean type, that type, this other type. Big bullshit, they were from several collections across China, and sold to them at 10$/kg !!!). None of them had highly variable color form. white, slightly ivory white, a couple green ones, that's all... 10$/kg makes about 100-200 plants of neos. But each of those plants will be sold ( I discussed with the 3 guys from that nursery who were at that place) from few hundreds to few thousands US$ There were some huge clumps sold too. They were already tagging some of the plants, one was Onamisekai or something like that, they had about 20 plants there ( but ALL collected, and ALL different, not divisions, I can vouch for that !), and they were making a listing, with many strange names, and sorting out the 10$/kg plan to match the listing in japanese...

It is like Louis Vuitton bags, You pay a small fortune, and can claim that they are top quality, blabla. But one of their production is in Indonesia, with 30$/month workers for the cut. Nike ? In Viet Nam they sell officially and publicly, you can get your pair ( real ones, not stolen, there are shops selling them officially) for about US$10-20.

If Japanese are childish enough to pay huge prices for neos, that's fine. But it is to my mind a massive scam industry. Now that westeners try to introduce and say 'wow, pay me 200$ for that small plant, it is a fu$kiran made with Sumo balls', I think it is not honest...
 

PaphMadMan

phytomanic
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
2,052
Reaction score
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin USA
Actually that's not how it works with genetics. Just because the parent and grand parent are the species, it does not necessarily mean the progeny will look like the species. The one parent (Dar. Charm) has 6 species in it, including Vanda sanderiana 3 times!
Peter.
I'll toss out my degree in genetics and horticulture, and defer to your greater wisdom. I'll also remember to refrain from further jests if you are participating in a thread.
 
Top