Legal Status of Hangianum and Hybrids?

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C. Rothschild

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divisions?

I can't say that 100% of those orchids on eBay from China weren't propagated in someone's backyard. I mean if the conditions were perfect they could be divisions from a garden. Not sure if that's possible with Hangianums. The climate and everything would have to be just right to have enough extras to sell. That being said if there was some website that clearly stated it's illegal to buy then I wouldn't. I've tried to find a clear answer about buying orchids from China but never received a reply.
 

troy

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Hengduan mountains biotechnology, holger and wenging perner sell propagated hangianum plants & flasks
 

s1214215

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Brett, I probably will agree most of what you said and observed, however, those illegally-collected wild orchids for the big "international" buyers will never show up on the daily local markets, so there are far more than just few wild orchids that are illegally coming into EU and North America each year.... regardless what CITES and local laws may or may not allow you, if you(orchid hobbyist) really care about conservation, you should never buy any illegally-collected orchids.
If you do want to import orchids, please check out the federal and state regulations carefully. Obviously we have some expert(good and bad) opinions posted here and on other threads, but do your own home-works also. Just remember, that person who gave you the "great" advice is not the one going to jail.
I would not import illegally collected plants knowingly Tom. That said, I get annoyed that bureaucrazy seldom seems to care about propagation programs to help make plants legally available. I mean woudlnt it make sense to propagate an plant like Paph rungsuriyanum and take a percentage of sales money and put it back into local conservation? Locking plants up doesnt work, and thats easy to see. Well luckily CITES in Australia accepted 2 flasks of that species a friend and I were able to get. :clap: So now I will work on growing them to blooming size with him, and then flasking them.. Hopefully in the years to come they can legally be exported. I feel that is the best way to protect them in the wild. Make them legally available with CITES docs. Why buy illegal plants if you can get legal ones.
 

s1214215

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I always feel sad when I look at it being totally legal to collect plants in China, as long as they are not in a national park.
 

Tom-DE

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Tom, I guess you didn't read my last posting, in the canhii thread there is a guy who lives or lived in the wild collected plant regions, he breaks it down how the orchid extinction problem is happening, I'm guessing you just want to be angry annd take anger out on somebody, me beiing an easy target for you
No, I am not picking on you and I am not angry with you. I just have problem with your commends on the agents and people who ignore CITES. Am I against collecting wild orchids? You bet I am! Do I think lab propagation is a great solution? Absolutely! but we can't ignore illegal wild orchid trade and blame CITES for whatever reasons.

@ the canhii thread, I have read it.... I have known Brett through forums for years and I certainly know he used to live in southeast Asia before he moved back to Australia.... but that is his story and opinion. What he said on that thread is not relevant to what I tried to say here .... I wish him good luck with his canhii and his endeavor in Australia.
 

Tom-DE

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I always feel sad when I look at it being totally legal to collect plants in China, as long as they are not in a national park.
Brett, I can't commend on the situation in China because I don't know the details.... however, you can always help to solve the problem by not buying them! They won't collect them if there is no market for the orchids.


@"Locking up plants doesn't work". No it doesn't! It kill the plants in most cases but it is necessary! The agents are there to enforce the laws. If the plants are legal and they are brought in with all the necessary documents and permits, then the agents won't "lock up" the plants. Should they handle the "locked-up" plants differently? Perhaps! They could ask some botanical gardens for help, but that is easier said than done and it could lead to other problems or situations as well if the program is not managed properly. They tried here in US with some orchid nurseries but I am not sure how successful the program was.
 

Tom-DE

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Most of the rung were collected by a responsible collector for the purpose of propagation.
I hate to say this sounds a lot like one of our presidential candidates! but do explain!
 
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troy

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Lol!!!!! Tom de what are you growing anyways? if you have not lived in the country of origion that orchids grow in read the canhii thread, if you have not read the thread then you are pointless to talk to, if you have read the thread then you just don't get it. Are you a smart person?....
 

Tom-DE

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Lol!!!!! Tom de if you have not lived in the country of origion that orchids grow in read the canhii thread, if you have not read the thread then you are pointless to talk to, if you have read the thread then you just don't get it which also makes you pointless to talk to
Troy, please explain what Brett said on that canhii thread is relevant to what I said here. If you can't do that, you need to improve your reading skill! Take a class and educate yourself! Perhaps there is no point to talk to a thin skinned person like you.

FYI, I have not seen it all and done it all, but I can tell you I have visited countries, rain forests and the local markets, far more than you can imagine, kiddo.
 

Tom-DE

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It's what new s.t. member s1214215 says in that thread
His name is Brett and he has been a member here since 2009.:rolleyes: I know who he is and He also posted on this thread few times.

Read both threads again from the beginning and explain why what he said is relevant to what I said here in your opinion.
 

Tom-DE

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@what I am growing? Since you asked after I quoted your post, Troy.
Not many now. I sold my collection last year, ~1000 plants(mainly I/C growing miniature species--from A to Z, but also including Paphs Phals and Cattleyas and things in between)....... I have/had been growing orchids for over 30 years either in greenhouse or under light, and I posted thousands of photos of my orchids on other forums/internet. I will post some photos here once I find an easy way to do that.

Let's hear about your collection and experience, shall we?
 

troy

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Well I'm very new, 4 years growing orchids, some bulbophylums, cattyleas dendrobiums mostly slippers, paphs & phrags, I've been studying up, you have been growing 30 years is a long time, I could probably learn quite abit about orchids from you, the point I'm trying to get you to understand is people who live in tropical regions, native orchid growing areas say 95 percent of orchid colinies stripped out of wild go to people that live within driving distance of the local marketplace, and the local rich person 'collector' will pay top dollar to the scmuck who finds one closest described to the desire of the pursuer, the other 5 percent would be shipped over seas and propagated to which you or I would be growing, the problem is not us 15,000 miles away the problem is the locals within 100 miles drive radius
 

Tom-DE

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Troy, you mixed up the treads, didn't you? I am not going to discuss the same issue again, so read what I've posted on this thread regarding what Brett said. If you still don't get it, let's say we agree we disagree each other. I would rather spend time talking about the effect of deforestation.

One last thing I must say, the gov't agents are not freeloaders as you implied. Although the CITES is not perfect, it probably is one of the best things that have ever happened to the wild orchids. I doubt you will agree that.
 

troy

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Please read what I said in the above post, it would seem that for some reason you are a knucklehead and don't get it
 

Tom-DE

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"knucklehead"? LOL! I have not been called "knucklehead" since I was a little kid. Thank you for the laugh...... but serious though, you don't want to start that kind of game here with me........


Your last post/message is not based on facts. That is all in your head. Where is the percentage from? Even Brett would not use percentage to make his point earlier. Get real, Troy! If you can't understand people's posts or follow from thread to thread, sit and take a reading class.
 

s1214215

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Brett, I can't commend on the situation in China because I don't know the details.... however, you can always help to solve the problem by not buying them! They won't collect them if there is no market for the orchids.

True, but again the market for Chinese orchids internationally is very small to the internal market. I guess thats my point. We can go on about plants crossing borders, but some countries like China, and Thailand for example, their local markets are massive. :(

I wish I had the stats on China and Thailand. What I know is from experience living and travelling for long periods extensively there, and from stats shown to me by a PHD student studying orchid smuggling and that was a real eye opener. Sadly its some years ago, and I dont have his contact now or I would get him to comment here. It would be really interesting.

I am totally against wild collection, but all for propagation. Its just sad when bureaucrazy prevents it. Anyway, I will leave off here, as I have said enough and hope I have not put the thread of track.
 

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