Leslie, I am going to do a post soon on another Cattleya primary hybrid using a coerulea lueddemanniana with a coerulea of another species (I don't want to give it all away) but the resulting progeny was not coerulea but a light magenta. What do you know about the coerulea gene in lueddemanniana compared to other species? I am picturing these Cattleya coerulea genes as multiple and recessive. I am wondering how many true coerulea Cattleya primary hybrids there can even be. Maybe there are mutant coerulea genes that became dominant and can be transmitted? Yours is such an intense color unless you have really messed with the lighting and the photo!
the issue of crossing two coerulea forms of different species and producing either 0 or 100% coerulea F1’s is well understood genetically.
It all depends on whether the two clones have a mutation in exactly the same gene or not. If they do, then 100% coeruleas are possible. If not, then 100% tipo forms can be expected.
This is because a mutation that causes coeruleas can happen in more than one gene.
Coerulea genes are recessive, usually located in different regions on different species that may overlap. As Terry mentioned, if there is no overlap then the tipo flowers occur as there are no genetic complementation.
There is also the possibility of ‘dilute’ heterozygous genes like in albas where the coerulea gene is linked with a red gene but expressed as intermediate in color (as in this case).
Do we know any Cattleya species where the coerulea genes in the same locus so that the primary hybrid would reliably be coerulea? Or, are there just two many different coerulea mutations so it is always a shake of the dice.
The corollary question for Leslie would be whether he knows of any breeding history with his plant? Does it ever pass on the strong coerulea?
I think that the primary hybrid canhamiana is reliably coerulea when mossiae coerulea and purpurata werkhauseri are used.
Its also possible that there are different forms of coerulea within the same species caused by mutations in different genes, so to make this decision you’d need to know the actual cultivars used in the cross.
Absolutely gorgeous!! And I’m loving the discussion about the genetics, even though I understand about every 5th word .
As an aside, I just became familiar with these types of genetic things in dog breeding having just acquired a genetically clean (from the 20 or so recessive gene problems that can affect poodles and golden retrievers), multi-Gen petite (under 14” and 25 lbs as an adult) Goldendoodle puppy.
Having had a Bichon Frise from the top breeder in France 15 years ago before these things were tested in dogs, I learned that patellar subluxation is passed down through a recessive gene. We paid for a dog from him (he had numerous champions of France, Belgium and Vice-Champion of the world), so we wouldn’t have the vet bills associated with patellas, hips, etc. and he guaranteed 10-12 lb adult size. Our dog was wonderful at 11 lbs, exceedingly smart, had a coat to die for and at age 2.5 started to develop patella problems in both knees. My vet explained that if the breeder had never bred our Curly’s particular parents (which he hadn’t), he had no way of knowing they both carried a recessive gene. So, two knee surgeries over the next 3 years assured us our dog would not be crippled for life. This time, at least I know that won’t happen again. And I know enough now about these things to be dangerous.
Leslie, I looked at the 33 awarded coerulea lueddemanniana that are posted in Orchid Pro and only the most recent AM 'Frank Smith' (Jan. 31, 2021) has coloration even approaching yours. That flower had an 18 cm horizontal natural spread. How wide is yours? Has yours been used in breeding?
It was fortunate that several of the wild collected coerulea forms of this species had unusually good form and size. Mariauxi is just one example. So breeding with these started off at a much higher level than is usual with coeruleas.
I have a piece of what is supposed to be Mariauxi that should flower this spring. It’s not flowered before. Fingers crossed!