Cattleya quadricolor flamea ‘Miroku’

[DrLeslieEe]

I found one of my quadricolors bloomings at DavidB while visiting tonight. The color of the flamea stunned me. NS 8 cm… small but just establishing.



I think this is one of two flamea quads in my collection. Maybe 3 lol.

 

[Ozpaph]

a lovely flower.
Where are the four colours?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I guess lip is only 3 (yellow, pink and fuschia) here unless you count the white rim?

a lovely flower.
Where are the four colours?

 

[Ozpaph]

not much yellow. is that to be expected in these colour variants?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

not much yellow. is that to be expected in these colour variants?

It’s not the amount of color there is that defines the quad designation but rather the number of colors present within the lip.

The amount of colors do vary even within each similar variety,

 

[GuRu]

Lovely flower ... even with less than four colours in the lip.

.....The amount of colors do vary even within each similar variety,

It seems this way and therefore the name is way of misleading ... at least in my eyes. The old name C. chocoensis was better.
If you start a quest in the net for images of this species you will find a lot with less than 4 colours in the lip .... even if you think of that not all images might show a true C. qudricolor.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Lovely flower ... even with less than four colours in the lip.

It seems this way and therefore the name is way of misleading ... at least in my eyes. The old name C. chocoensis was better.
If you start a quest in the net for images of this species you will find a lot with less than 4 colours in the lip .... even if you think of that not all images might show a true C. qudricolor.

The name was made on ONE type specimen without full analysis of the species variation. So it was mistakenly given this grievous name to confuse everyone.

 

[GuRu]

The name was made on ONE type specimen without full analysis of the species variation. So it was mistakenly given this grievous name to confuse everyone.

These were also my thoughts.

 

[BrucherT]

I guess lip is only 3 (yellow, pink and fuschia) here unless you count the white rim?

I see white, fuschia (which contains purple), pink and yellow.

 

[terryros]

Leslie, there isn't a full side view, but it looks like the petals are not reflexing forward very much? What do you think about the cultivars of this species that show almost no forward flexing? I first saw this shape in a picture from Orchids Limited of quadricolor 'Elly', but strangely this is still listed in Orchids Pro as chocoensis. There are three cultivars that are still listed under chocoensis in Orchids Pro (none after 2002). Were they just forgotten and not merged into quadricolor?

The most recent AOS award for quadricolor is 'Luscious Lips' by Ben Oliveros. It looks pretty flat and I am not sure I could recognize the lip as quadricolor. Is line breeding improving the shape of quadricolor but perhaps altering the lip colors?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Leslie, there isn't a full side view, but it looks like the petals are not reflexing forward very much? What do you think about the cultivars of this species that show almost no forward flexing? I first saw this shape in a picture from Orchids Limited of quadricolor 'Elly', but strangely this is still listed in Orchids Pro as chocoensis. There are three cultivars that are still listed under chocoensis in Orchids Pro (none after 2002). Were they just forgotten and not merged into quadricolor?

The most recent AOS award for quadricolor is 'Luscious Lips' by Ben Oliveros. It looks pretty flat and I am not sure I could recognize the lip as quadricolor. Is line breeding improving the shape of quadricolor but perhaps altering the lip colors?

The petals are forward a little bit but may still be expanding (?).

There are several cultivars of this species with flatter or rounder flowers such as Elly but they are far and in between. That’s why they are rarer. The majority are still cupped no matter what breeding happens. (Interestingly though the Colombians think this cupping is natural and beautiful and actually prefer this to the flatter ‘hybrid-looking’ flowers.)

This species has been synonyms with several names including chocoensis and candida. Sometimes in older literature and awards the old names still stay (eg eldorado vs wallisii) although we know to research them to compare as well.

 

[terryros]

I thought eldorado was all converted to wallisii in AOS but I looked and there are two eldorado awards still in there. The dividing line seems to be about 2010. I know it takes a tremendous amount of housekeeping to get all these things updated when species change but it would be nice to find all in one place. Maybe you have contacts to pass a hint about eldorado and chocoensis?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I thought eldorado was all converted to wallisii in AOS but I looked and there are two eldorado awards still in there. The dividing line seems to be about 2010. I know it takes a tremendous amount of housekeeping to get all these things updated when species change but it would be nice to find all in one place. Maybe you have contacts to pass a hint about eldorado and chocoensis?

Yes they know this already and in the works.

 

[David B]

I found one of my quadricolors bloomings at DavidB while visiting tonight. The color of the flamea stunned me. NS 8 cm… small but just establishing.

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I think this is one of two flamea quads in my collection. Maybe 3 lol.

Of note to me is the growth habit of this plant. If it persists, I will post a pic later. I have grown quadricolor in the past, and they became absolute monsters, necessitating using 12" pots with the plants nearing at least 30' in heigh, and much space between growths. Not a fan of the form, I reacted harshly, enough said. This clone sports almost vertical bulb and leaf position and tight grouping of pseudobulbs making it quite manageable and likely a better floral display when there are multiple growths in bloom. We shall see. Cheers.

 

[terryros]

Of note to me is the growth habit of this plant. If it persists, I will post a pic later. I have grown quadricolor in the past, and they became absolute monsters, necessitating using 12" pots with the plants nearing at least 30' in heigh, and much space between growths. Not a fan of the form, I reacted harshly, enough said. This clone sports almost vertical bulb and leaf position and tight grouping of pseudobulbs making it quite manageable and likely a better floral display when there are multiple growths in bloom. We shall see. Cheers.

I am sure that Leslie and you are confident in the provenance of the plant to make you confident it is quadricolor, but there must be some important mutations in this plant!

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I am sure that Leslie and you are confident in the provenance of the plant to make you confident it is quadricolor, but there must be some important mutations in this plant!

I don’t think we doubt the species.

DavidB is just stating that he’s used to stouter quads in his experience. Though it’s more likely to be tall and skinny in the wild,

I’ll post on quads from my recent Colombia trip sometime soon, with native plants.

 

[NEslipper]

To play devil’s advocate, once line-breeding gets the flowers flatter, what distinguishes a decent quadricolor from a typical trianae? (Full disclaimer, I have yet to see a quadricolor I would give some precious windowsill space to, but I’m glad we all have slightly different if sometimes overlapping tastes!)

 

[terryros]

To play devil’s advocate, once line-breeding gets the flowers flatter, what distinguishes a decent quadricolor from a typical trianae? (Full disclaimer, I have yet to see a quadricolor I would give some precious windowsill space to, but I’m glad we all have slightly different if sometimes overlapping tastes!)

I read a discussion about whether Homo sapiens (Hs) and Homo neaderthalensis (Hn) are separate species. One of the key pieces of evidence is whether they can interbreed AND create fertile off-spring, which genetic analysis says Hs and Hn could do. Hn has 99.7% DNA identity with modern Hn. If we applied these criteria to the orchid world we would really be lumpers and not splitters.

 

[southernbelle]

I’m all for lumping! Or in any event, not re-categorizing/naming things all the time. It gets a little nuts. Especially when vendors stick with the old nomenclature

 

[DrLeslieEe]

To play devil’s advocate, once line-breeding gets the flowers flatter, what distinguishes a decent quadricolor from a typical trianae? (Full disclaimer, I have yet to see a quadricolor I would give some precious windowsill space to, but I’m glad we all have slightly different if sometimes overlapping tastes!)

The differences between these two species are really distinct. If you see enough of the two species, you will instinctively know which is which.

The floral ratio of the lip to petals, the ratio of sepals/petals, the angle of the pedicel stem to flower and the color distribution as well as the distribution of the lip color are different between the two.

Vegetatively, the quad leaves on all sub types can be rolled lengthwise into a cigar. It’s an interesting phenomenon. This will tear the trianae leaves.

Also the ratio of flower size to plant size is different. Quad flowers are always smaller than the plant.