Goldenrose, to me, the examples you gave prove my thought - the Noirmonts have a very round pouch and droopy petals, and the inside of the pouch is more open and spotted. The Eric Youngs have a pointed tip to the pouch, straight, pointed petals, and a fairly closed pouch with no spots. At least, thats what I saw.
Goldenrose I'm agree with Kevin,
Noirmont is Memoria Dick Clements x longifolium
50% longifolium + 25% sargenteanum + 25% besseae
The besseae is dominant for the colouration and form.
The sargenteanum enhance the colouration and dominant for the form and it brig smalls speckled dot in the pouch.
Longifolium x besseae or x sargenteanum,
Those are F1 crosses and both crosses are loosing theirs horns each side of the pouch depending who is the pod parent, you can see some vestigial bump but not weel formed horn.
In a F2 those two are now down to 25% and the longifolium is now 50% the horns are coming back and they are now dominant...
You can see the same rules with schlimii, look at the Sedenii, Cardinale and Calurum. When you see a Sedenii with big horns and pointed petals you can thing it is mislabelled Calurum. I’ve even seen some Andean Fire (lindleyanum x besseae) with big longifolium horns each side of the pouch and they get awarded (???).. It is sad! Because the next real Andean Fire will be judge in regards of those one... And by adding longifolium the size of the flower is improved it should be judge as an Inca Ember....
Sure you can have some variation in a specific cross but dominants and recessives characters are there. The game is not exactly the same when you are working with more complex crosses F3, F4 etc... It is much more difficult to predict and to say if it is or not what it is suppose to be.