Another Noirmount

[Rayb]

This is a first bloom for this plant the flower is much smaller than the picture suggest.

Ray

 

[JeanLux]

nice shape and colors!!! Jean

 

[goldenrose]

I'll add to that - It's only going to get better! :clap::clap:

 

[biothanasis]

nice apple-like colours!!!!

 

[SlipperFan]

Nice open stance.

 

[Kevin]

Nice! But, are you sure it's Noirmont? It looks a lot like Eric Young to me. Anyone else?

 

[Phrag-Plus]

Nice! But, are you sure it's Noirmont? It looks a lot like Eric Young to me. Anyone else?

Nice flower, but it is not a Noirmont, sorry Ray! It could't be anything else than an Eric Young for me too...

 

[SlipperKing]

Nice flower whatever it is. It does look like it has lost it's sarg to me too.

 

[Rayb]

Well Thanks for the comments I only went by the tag I've had it awhile now so I am glad to see it bloom.

Ray

 

[SlipperFan]

Nice! But, are you sure it's Noirmont? It looks a lot like Eric Young to me. Anyone else?

Actually, I wondered about that also. But Noirmont can be somewhat variable.

 

[goldenrose]

Looks like a Noirmont to me, but I can see where the question would arise. Those that are questioning it, remember this is a first time bloom, is that making the difference?
Here was a recent thread http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9602&highlight=phrag+noirmont.
These 2 do look different but are they all falling into the variable range?
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7526&highlight=phrag+noirmont
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8206&highlight=phrag+noirmont
I guess if we're comparing, let's look at a couple EYs
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9116&highlight=phrag+eric+young
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7178&highlight=phrag+eric+young

 

[toddybear]

I too think it looks like Eric Young...it's a ringer in shape to mine.

 

[Kevin]

Goldenrose, to me, the examples you gave prove my thought - the Noirmonts have a very round pouch and droopy petals, and the inside of the pouch is more open and spotted. The Eric Youngs have a pointed tip to the pouch, straight, pointed petals, and a fairly closed pouch with no spots. At least, thats what I saw.

 

[Phrag-Plus]

Goldenrose, to me, the examples you gave prove my thought - the Noirmonts have a very round pouch and droopy petals, and the inside of the pouch is more open and spotted. The Eric Youngs have a pointed tip to the pouch, straight, pointed petals, and a fairly closed pouch with no spots. At least, thats what I saw.

Goldenrose I'm agree with Kevin,
Noirmont is Memoria Dick Clements x longifolium
50% longifolium + 25% sargenteanum + 25% besseae
The besseae is dominant for the colouration and form.
The sargenteanum enhance the colouration and dominant for the form and it brig smalls speckled dot in the pouch.

Longifolium x besseae or x sargenteanum,
Those are F1 crosses and both crosses are loosing theirs horns each side of the pouch depending who is the pod parent, you can see some vestigial bump but not weel formed horn.
In a F2 those two are now down to 25% and the longifolium is now 50% the horns are coming back and they are now dominant...

You can see the same rules with schlimii, look at the Sedenii, Cardinale and Calurum. When you see a Sedenii with big horns and pointed petals you can thing it is mislabelled Calurum. I’ve even seen some Andean Fire (lindleyanum x besseae) with big longifolium horns each side of the pouch and they get awarded (???).. It is sad! Because the next real Andean Fire will be judge in regards of those one... And by adding longifolium the size of the flower is improved it should be judge as an Inca Ember....

Sure you can have some variation in a specific cross but dominants and recessives characters are there. The game is not exactly the same when you are working with more complex crosses F3, F4 etc... It is much more difficult to predict and to say if it is or not what it is suppose to be.

 

[NYEric]

Wow! That's a lot of words! Simply stated, if it were Noirmont it would have the 'horny' :evil: pouch, closed and w/ heavier speckles. I think it's an Eric Young also. Yay besseae hybrids!

 

[goldenrose]

Thanks for that info Jean-Pierre! (It shouldn't surprise any of us!)