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papheteer

papheteer

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Root growth has been amazing since I started using a different fertlizer and pure tap water. Few plants are still pale but most have recovered nicely. I am in the process of repotting most of my plants. Thanks to eggshells and Paphman for pointing me to the right direction!

Here are some pics! I'll take more as I repot more plants.







 
Used k-lite and RO water for a while. I also added crushed oyster shells on some
Plants. Then my plants started turning really pale and stopped growing. Then eggshells told me its nitrogen deficiency and told me to use plant-prod 25-10-10 that has some ammoniacal and urea N. I've also been supplementing with calcium nitrate seaweed extract. I also fertilize at 1/8 tsp/gallon of water every watering. Also I've been watering them a bit more. Some of them haven't been repotted for years so i wouldn't attribute the root growth to new potting media.
 
I have to say the N deficiency is not because of k-lite per se. But due to it being all nitrate and my addition of crushed oyster shells.
 
gonewild said:
Were you fertilizing every time you watered?

So basically by switching to the 25-10-10 you doubled the the amount of Nitrogen you were applying.

Did you by any chance try K-lite at a stronger rate before you switched to 25-10-10?
Click to expand...

Lance, no. I saw the plants of eggshells and Paphman and I was encouraged by that to try the 25-10-10. Plus I like the idea of using water straight from tap. From what I read k-lite is best used with a purer source of water.
 
papheteer said:
Lance, no. I saw the plants of eggshells and Paphman and I was encouraged by that to try the 25-10-10. Plus I like the idea of using water straight from tap. From what I read k-lite is best used with a purer source of water.
Click to expand...

OK, I'm just trying to find a valid example of the nitrogen source being the deficiency cause, Nitrate vs Ammonia. In your case since you doubled the Nitrogen and changed the source it does not answer that question.

A few more questions so we can refer back in the future..
1.How long did you use K-lite before switching?
2.Why did you start using K-lite?
3.Before using K-lite did you experience problems with rot or plant loss or insect infestations?
4. After switching to K-lite did you notice less of the above problems/

The reason I ask these questions is because they pertain to the Potassium and Phosphorous part of the fertilizer ratios and whether these two componets are what contribute to poor plant health (obesity). You corrected a nitrogen deficiency by increasing (2x) the nitrogen amount and type. At the same time you have increased the Potassium and Phosphorous 1000% (10x).

Your plants look good!
 
gonewild said:
OK, I'm just trying to find a valid example of the nitrogen source being the deficiency cause, Nitrate vs Ammonia. In your case since you doubled the Nitrogen and changed the source it does not answer that question.

A few more questions so we can refer back in the future..
1.How long did you use K-lite before switching?
2.Why did you start using K-lite?
3.Before using K-lite did you experience problems with rot or plant loss or insect infestations?
4. After switching to K-lite did you notice less of the above problems/

The reason I ask these questions is because they pertain to the Potassium and Phosphorous part of the fertilizer ratios and whether these two componets are what contribute to poor plant health (obesity). You corrected a nitrogen deficiency by increasing (2x) the nitrogen amount and type. At the same time you have increased the Potassium and Phosphorous 1000% (10x).

Your plants look good!
Click to expand...


Thanks

I used to use MSU. Did get ok results. Nothing spectacular.I switched to K-lite in Oct. 2011. So I used it for almost 6 months. As i have said. It's the combination of crushed oyster shells and nitrate that caused the N deficiency.

Mind you, I still believe that K-lite is the way to go. I just wish they made a version with more ammoniacal N. That would work better with my tap water. That's why I use such a low dose of the 25-10-10. To lessen the P and K that my plants get as well.
 
papheteer said:
Thanks
As i have said. It's the combination of crushed oyster shells and nitrate that caused the N deficiency.
Click to expand...

How do you know the deficiency is from the nitrate source and not form a simple lack of the amount of Nitrogen?

Mind you, I still believe that K-lite is the way to go. I just wish they made a version with more ammoniacal N. That would work better with my tap water.
That's why I use such a low dose of the 25-10-10. To lessen the P and K that my plants get as well.
Click to expand...

You lessen the amount but not the ratio balance between the nutrients.
When you add back in Calcium Nitrate you are adding Nitrates and also reproducing what the oyster shell influence.

Maybe a better long term approach would be to supplement K-lite with ammonium nitrate and leave off the oyster shell?

I think the nutrient ratio balance may play a bigger role than the reduction of the nutrients. And I'm referring to plant health and disease resistance and not to plant "beauty".

IN Fashion..... skinny models and fat plants. :drool:
 
Nice roots paphateer:drool:
Most of the writings I've seen seem to indicate the best N ratio is at least 1:1
ammonuim/urea to nitrate. And I believe even better with 50% of the N comming from a wide range of amino acids.
Also read a paper on catasetum given different combinations of the above N souces had the best growth (in vitro) with amino acid glutamine.
All nitrate performed the worst and had the highest sugar content and the lowest chlorophyll!
 
Stone thanks. Interesting stuff about the glutamine. I wanna try it. Do you know if i could use the supplement l-glutamine? If yes, at what rate? Thanks!
 
papheteer said:
Stone thanks. Interesting stuff about the glutamine. I wanna try it. Do you know if i could use the supplement l-glutamine? If yes, at what rate? Thanks!
Click to expand...

That was just a controlled lab experiment using one particular amino acid. I think you are better off using a wide range. And the best commercial source I know of comes from a good quality organically FERMENTED fish fertilizer. (not your average fish emulsion which uses heat and god knows what) Check out some of the suppliers of organic fertilizers on the web. The fermentation is important as it uses certain bacteria to brake down the protein into amino acids rather than mineralize into ammonium and nitrates like regular composting. Seaweed also has some but you don't want to use that too often because of the auxins??
 
Nice plants and awesome roots!

I don't want to take over this thread but I have a question. I have 15 paphs, all but 2 are species. Of all of them, my Paph. sanderianum has the best root system, the roots are growing out the bottom of the pot even. No other paph of mine has roots like that sanderianum. I thought that sanderianum was supposed to be slow and hard to grow, why does it have the best root system?
 

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