Tokyo Orchid Nursery Roths

[paphioland]

You can tell what Machan thinks by price too.
Machan sells divisions but price varies slightly by size of division. Equal sized nice divisions. Of course exchange rates affect as well. The clones relative cost I have never seen change for similar division size. Oh and by the way the awards obviously mean nothing to the price. Since the level and societies of the award don't match price. When they gain more awards the price really hasn't changed.

Tarantula >Tokyo Fantasy>
Raptor, Perfection and titanic

 

[paphioland]

Tarantula is clearly a top roth. I always felt it had more of an open-form effect because the petals are so long, but the dorsal and ventral are still very round. The contrast with the pouch is striking.

Here's a link to one of Lien's bloomings of roth Canadian Club I'm sure many have seen.

http://www.rv-orchidworks.com/orchi...ph-rothschildianum-canadian-club-gm-joga.html

Canadian Club is a very nice roth and can do much more than that. Great acquisition. I have seen it bloomed in real life and in many others bloomed pictures. It has that yellowing at the top center of the pouch that comes through every bloom. Even though it is a flaw I kind of like it.

 

[Justin]

Canadian Club is a very nice roth and can do much more than that. Great acquisition. I have seen it bloomed in real life and in many others bloomed pictures. It has that yellowing at the top center of the pouch that comes through every bloom. Even though it is a flaw I kind of like it.

when the first pictures of it came out from the JGP it was clear that MM x Val was going to set a new standard. Around the same time or earlier i think Perfection and Titanic were being shown.

 

[Paul]

those roths are very nice and if someone gives me some division I would say "yes, with pleasure"
However, my (very) personnal feeling is that I prefer 'Mont Millais' even if it's smaller. I really love the more chocolate colours, than the red ones... Just my opinion, of course!

 

[Fabrice]

What is incredible is that Tarantula is a wild collected plant if I remember well.

So, for a breeder like TON, the best roth. ever seen is yet an original plant.

Like Paul, I find Mont Millais is an incredible plant. Maybe smaller but the rest of the flower is really perfect in my eyes.

About Raptor, yes it's not perfect with some small defaults but I find they give too charm.
Too round, too large petals too big, etc..., it's not for me. At least not just that.

 

[paphioland]

What is incredible is that Tarantula is a wild collected plant if I remember well.

So, for a breeder like TON, the best roth. ever seen is yet an original plant.

Like Paul, I find Mont Millais is an incredible plant. Maybe smaller but the rest of the flower is really perfect in my eyes.

About Raptor, yes it's not perfect with some small defaults but I find they give too charm.
Too round, too large petals too big, etc..., it's not for me. At least not just that.

Taratula is MM x Val def not wild collected

Concerning MM. I and many others bloom roths as nice or nicer almost every month. MM is a relic. If you like it though, flowers that are pretty much indistinguishable from it are common and should be easy to find.

 

[paphioland]

those roths are very nice and if someone gives me some division I would say "yes, with pleasure"
However, my (very) personnal feeling is that I prefer 'Mont Millais' even if it's smaller. I really love the more chocolate colours, than the red ones... Just my opinion, of course!

MM has some red tone. The color comes from MM and many of these modern roths have better color.

 

[paphioland]

I think if we did an experiment and went into the OZ or TON when the roths were blooming and snuck MM in with the group almost no one would pick it out in the top group of roths. If you saw it you compared to modern roths you would realize it is inferior.

 

[Felix]

Anything known about the ploidy of these superior plants?

 

[Justin]

Agree the MM progeny have surpassed it in quality. It's still an excellent clone in its own right.

 

[Fabrice]

Ok, my mistake for Tarantula... I confused.

 

[Fabrice]

Don't agree about MM. But probably too because it's not just a roth. among others in my eyes but mainly an incredible piece of History. I don't understand how
some breeders sold their MM plants because they had better in their next generation.

 

[Fabrice]

And in my opinion, it's necessary too not always see flowers quality with standard judges but too with our own tastes. Often I agree with breeding selection and desired standard but not always. (Last OZ besseae generation is the best example for me. Where is the original besseae in this flower? Dissapeared! Looks like an hybrid. I dont' like that, even if I'm aware it's a fantastic selection work)

 

[paphioland]

And in my opinion, it's necessary too not always see flowers quality with standard judges but too with our own tastes. Often I agree with breeding selection and desired standard but not always. (Last OZ besseae generation is the best example for me. Where is the original besseae in this flower? Dissapeared! Looks like an hybrid. I dont' like that, even if I'm aware it's a fantastic selection work)

I agree. I am just saying that if you like MM there are many indistinguishable plants that bloom very frequently. You can get lots of MM equivalents. I can fool the best of the best with many clones that look like mm. I am just saying that no one could pick mm out of a 200 blooming new generation OZ roths or mm x self or val x mm or nancho x mm. It is near impossible because there will be many clones of its quality there.

If you are interested in history thats another thing. Better make sure you get the "correct one" people have been peddling mmx self and commander offspring as MM for a long time. Lets say TON doesn't have the "correct" one or OZ didn't? What is better for history the true MM or the one that bred the future generations? I am not inferring anything. I don't think anyone truly knows what the true MM is or are some that are MM x self or commander x MM. Thats what I'm saying. There are many flowers that look like MM. Could fool the best of us. Stick Tarantula, tokyo fantasy, perfection, raptor, CC, the long list of famous OZ roths or Dazzler I could pick them out. They would certainly be in the top groups. I could prob pick out the exact clone on a good blooming.

I totally agree get what you like. Im just saying that what you like can be had at an affordable price if you are not interested in name brand. So you are lucky. Im telling you that I have seen some MM x self and some plants labelled as commander x self and trinity x commander and trinity x mm that look lots like MM. I had one that was so MMish I don't know how you tell them apart the color, dimensions. Some of the new generation roths have looked very MMish.

 

[cattmad]

there were a lot of very good roths that came out of Val X MM as well that haven't been mentioned yet, like knights sunshine

http://www.orchidweb.jp/orchidshow/jgp2008/paph_species.htm

and 'holy Max'

http://www.woctrust.org/Tokyo-2006.html

or the very dark dorsaled 'knights castle'

https://plus.google.com/+Sborchidshow1/posts/cTVgfA7cE8J

it needs to be remembered that TON flowered 4-5 thousand seedlings to get the absolute best plants

 

[paphioland]

There were many. I just mentioned the very top tier.

there were a lot of very good roths that came out of Val X MM as well that haven't been mentioned yet, like knights sunshine

http://www.orchidweb.jp/orchidshow/jgp2008/paph_species.htm

and 'holy Max'

http://www.woctrust.org/Tokyo-2006.html

or the very dark dorsaled 'knights castle'

https://plus.google.com/+Sborchidshow1/posts/cTVgfA7cE8J

it needs to be remembered that TON flowered 4-5 thousand seedlings to get the absolute best plants

 

[Justin]

There were many. I just mentioned the very top tier.

As the pollen parent Val was not the best out of C.E. x Borneo. I was thinking about crossing 'Sheila' onto MM to get something better. Only problem is I don't have a nursery greenhouse on hand to flower out some thousands to find it...

Val:
https://www.google.com/search?q=rot...nt.0catch.com%2F2.0specieslisting.htm;640;480

Sheila:
http://www.csnjc.org/Sacto2012/paphrothschildianum.html

 

[paphioland]

As the pollen parent Val was not the best out of C.E. x Borneo. I was thinking about crossing 'Sheila' onto MM to get something better. Only problem is I don't have a nursery greenhouse on hand to flower out some thousands to find it...

Val:
https://www.google.com/search?q=rot...nt.0catch.com%2F2.0specieslisting.htm;640;480

Sheila:
http://www.csnjc.org/Sacto2012/paphrothschildianum.html

I wouldn't. I would keep moving forward. Even if it is a little better you will still be behind.

 

[Ozpaph]

You guys play for keeps! Most of us only dream of having a 2nd or 3rd tier roth, by your standards!

 

[Trithor]

Great thread!