Sphagnum ?

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Nothing has been mentioned about one's watering schedule in the fall when the temps need to drop on some of these species. Cold + wet sphag = disaster to me, here's where I'd feel more comfortable with a bark mix. Or .... is it OK to let the sphag go bone dry at this time?
 
Like a previous post mentioned, I start out very small seedlings that look ready for pudding cups (with holes melted in bottom with soldering iron, I'm also cheap :) ) or 2.25" pots with varying amounts of NZ sphag in them. Not that I can claim to have grown many plants from this stage yet, but for just out of compot Paphs I put them in pudding cup pots with maybe half and half NZ sphag:CHC with some charcoal sprinkled in. When they get potted up to a 2.25" pot in 6 months to a year I lower the sphag to maybe a quarter of the media, and then after a year there, if they haven't outgrown the pot, I repot them into a new 2.25" pot with out sphag. Pots larger than that get no sphag and some smaller aggregate chunks (LECA of some sort), larger still get larger CHC and larger LECA...you get the idea. The reasoning I have behind this is that smaller seedlings seem to benefit from a little bit higher and more even moisture level, and smaller pots dry out faster as well. By potting up each plant in my still-too-small collection by grabbing a handful of this and a handful of that to customize things, I feel like it gives me more predictable drying times. The other upside to using the sphag only in the smaller pots is that seedlings are (hopefully) growing faster and in need of potting up more frequently, so I don't have to worry about the 'when is the mix sour and in need of change' issue. I've also found that sphag in larger pots leads to more algae - probably also a function of more mature plants growing in higher light and staying wet longer in larger pots - since I grow everything in clear plastic. The clear allows me to see the happy new roots weaving in and around the sphag, so it's worth a little algae to me! I know I talked about more than just sphag, but I didn't think I could paint the picture without it! :)
 
In 2006 I bought a few paph seedlings from Krull-Smith. I was surprised to find them in moss. They were in 2.25 inch pot, excellent root. These are mostly multiflora roth hybrids.
After reading this thread, I am going to repot my phrag into NZ moss tomorrow. I don't water it daily and it's not doing as well in a bark mix.
 
Thanks, everyone --

I'm going to try other species (adults!) than armeniacum, micranthum, druryi, and Phrags in pure NZ sphagnum... Just looked again at a micranthum division, and it has beautifullay growing roots. Will update.

Best wishes,

Vic.
 
It may be worth keeping track of drain water pH. If it gets much below 5 then you will probably end up with long term deficiencies. Many of the present successes with sphag may be due to pH compensation for relatively high pH irrigation water.

There have been some postings of outrageously good armeniacums in baskets, (maybe moss lined), but in one of the best cases there was regular addition of lime.

The species of the Barbata group (like NYErics sangii) are more inclined to like lower pH/ mossy environments anyway and may be the more obvious candidates.

Before changing everything consider the hardness and pH of your irrigation water.
 
i get my sphagnum form Lowes home improvement, the brand is Better-Gro and it is labeled as orchid moss and is composed of 100% long fibre blonde sphagnum moss from Chile. all of my orchids are grown in this. i use clay pots and water by hand. when i water i use my hand to seal the drain whole and allow the water to completely fill the container then drain and repeat to remove salt build up since the water is very hard here. since i started growing my orchids this way they have flourishe and bloomed with more and better flowers.
 
I water my plants in sphag once a week in spring/summer and only when the moss starts to dry out in winter (which is about every 2 weeks)... Does it help that I water with hard water..? Adelaide municipal water has a lot of dissolved stuff in it.. will this prevent the sphagnum breaking down and becoming more acidic..?
 
I water my plants in sphag once a week in spring/summer and only when the moss starts to dry out in winter (which is about every 2 weeks)... Does it help that I water with hard water..? Adelaide municipal water has a lot of dissolved stuff in it.. will this prevent the sphagnum breaking down and becoming more acidic..?

Don't know if it slows down the breakdown rate, but it will definitely offset the acidity.
 
Albert,
I use pure sphagnum (usually Chilean) for only a small handful of Paphs myself. I water with Chicago tap water, 225 ppm total disolved solids. Paph purpuratum and Paph purpurescens (sensu Fowlie) which is sunk into Paph virens without explaination by Cribb. Both of these plants have been in moss for over 20 years.

There is a grower in the Chicago area that grows 100% of her orchids in NZ or Chilean sphagnum. Paph rothschildianum, bellatum, lowii, druyii, armeniacum & mastersianum are some of the plants she has bloomed and I have personally seen in bloom over the last 25 years. You absolutely can grow all Paph species in nothing but sphagnum. I have seen it done.

A couple tricks she has shared;
*Key, wet the moss before you repot the plants. The old moss is easier to get off the roots if it is wet, the new moss must also be wet.
*Also very important is that you pot the plants loose. DO NOT PACK the moss in tight. Particularly for the paphs, keep the moss loose so that it will breath easily. Packing the moss too tightly is the reason many people fail over the long run growing in sphagnum. By loose I mean when her plants are freshly repotted often the plant is still wobbly, she will even add a few bamboo skewers to hold the plant up until the new roots prop the plant up better.
*Each plant will have a very different watering schedule versus what its schedule is when in bark. She lets her Paphs get fairly close to dry, her Phrags she waters twice as often as the Paphs, keeping them much wetter.

Generally plants in sphagnum will go much longer than similar plants in a bark mix in the same location. That is the reason she went with sphagnum. She likes to take week long trips and does not want to have to have people coming in to water her plants. It has worked well for her over the last 25 years.

So give it a try, it can be done. The key is to observe your technique and see how the plants respond. If they seem to rot, repot them into fresh moss and experiment with keeping the moss looser in the pot.

Go for it
Leo
 
I water my plants in sphag once a week in spring/summer and only when the moss starts to dry out in winter (which is about every 2 weeks)... Does it help that I water with hard water..? Adelaide municipal water has a lot of dissolved stuff in it.. will this prevent the sphagnum breaking down and becoming more acidic..?

actually, i believe that hard water cause the sphagnum to break down faster. if you watered with rain, reverse osmosis, or distilled water the sphagnum would last for quite a while and new moss might start growing.
 
Leo,
Does she use any lime or chicken grit to balance the PH?
Thanks,
Jim

As of the last time I checked, a few years ago, she does not. HOWEVER, she does use city water, which is buffered alkaline to stop leaching lead into the drinking water and she uses Green Care's MSU formula Orchid Special. This fertilizer does have all the calcium and magnesium the plants need. Sphagnum works well for her.
 
I know Paphs aren't Phals, but there was an article in the AOS magazine recently about growing Phals in all sphag, and the way they described it, they blamed many people's trouble with tightly packed sphag medium on them trying to keep the rest of the culture too much like it should be for bark grown plants...This is a quote from the article: "It's important to leave no air spaces in the root area, so don't be afraid to pack the moss tight. Although we may think that plants with their roots packed this tight would receive no aeration, this theory has been scientifically proven to be incorrect. Even when tight, the moss has plenty of air space." Another section talked about how the sphag dries from the bottom up (opposite of bark) and that that's what prevents rotting. So I don't know, it intrigued me enough to try packing a tiny piece of a sphag'n bag Paph tightly into its tiny pot, topped with limestone pellets. Not a good experiment whether it lives or dies, since it wasn't healthy to begin with, but I figure I've already morned the probable loss of the plant anyway, so it can't hurt! Maybe someone with 'too many' plants should read the article and give it a shot with some healthy ones. If anyone else is curious, it was Orchids, Vol. 79 No. 5 May 2010...
 
Thank You! I can remembering reading an article further back (I think it was highlighting a grower) that packed tight. Tight doesn't work for me. This spring I repotted a couple of phals looser & in clay, they seem to be doing much better & respiking already!
 
Commercially we will put our Paphs. into Sphagnum if going to a show/travelling overseas for moisture. If we have shipped stock in, or have a sick plant (yes, we get them :rollhappy:) we will put them in Sphagnum for about 6 months to promote the root growth which 9 times out of 10 works and they put out good new good healthy roots. We do then, however, put back into our bark mix after about 6 months. This is mainly because commercially we can't afford to have the whole nursery in moss! And also, if we had a few kept in moss, they would dry out quicker than those in the bark mix and then that would cause root trouble again!
I'd say keep going with your moss, just keep an eye on it, and maybe after about 10-12 months, re-pot into fresh moss just to make sure all is OK??
 
actually, i believe that hard water cause the sphagnum to break down faster. if you watered with rain, reverse osmosis, or distilled water the sphagnum would last for quite a while and new moss might start growing.

But if you primarily use these very soft waters then pH will drop well below 5 and make most nutrients unavailable or even toxic.

An old Orchids article on the use of lime or some other calcereous substrates in a bark mixture using a Maude type hybrid showed some pretty poor growth in the un-buffered, lowest pH matrix. Bob Wellenstien's e-library on ladyslipper.com also has a good article on nutrient bio availability and pH.

There are definitely a handful of slipper species that thrive in very low pH environments but most prefer the 5.5 and up range, which requires a bit of buffer regardless of the type of substrate used.
 
I had a couple phrag seedings that got knocked over and went maybe a month or more with no water. (Hey, I just didn't notice) They were one step from the garbage heap. I took them to the other greenhouse and tucked them in the large tray of live sphagnum with all carnivorous plants about four months ago.

They have become turgid again, new roots, and new leaves. :clap: I won't have to leave them in there for too much longer it seems. So I've had good results when the plants are small and have little root, the sphag help provide that 50/50 ratio of air and water they like around the roots.
 
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