Phrag.....?

Discussion in 'Taxonomy' started by troy, Apr 14, 2016.

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  1. Apr 14, 2016 #1

    troy

    troy

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    Is wallisii the same as warsciwizianum?
     
  2. Apr 14, 2016 #2

    NYEric

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    Phragweb.
     
  3. Apr 14, 2016 #3

    Rob Zuiderwijk

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    It is quite confusing. Current status of names as far as I know:

    Phrag. caudatum
    Phrag. exstaminodium
    Phrag. lindenii
    Phrag. popowii (Some say Phrag. humboldtii depending on view.)
    Phrag. warszewiczianum (note spelling)


    Phrag. popowii used to be Phrag. (caudatum var.) warscewiczianum (note spelling)
    Phrag. warszewiczianum used to be Phrag. (caudatum var.) wallisii

    All the best,

    Rob.
     
  4. Apr 14, 2016 #4
  5. Apr 14, 2016 #5

    NYEric

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    Hi Smitty! Thanks for the response.
     
  6. Apr 14, 2016 #6

    troy

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    Lol... china dragon x wallisii aka warsciwizianum has been awarded & named already, instead of my name (ira hayes) it is some stupid bullshit lol... dammit!!!
     
  7. Apr 14, 2016 #7

    NYEric

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    What!? Did you make the cross?
     
  8. Apr 14, 2016 #8

    troy

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    I didn't make the cross.. with permission I could have named it
     
  9. Apr 15, 2016 #9

    SlipperFan

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    And warszewiczianum used to be wallisii, right? If not, is it back as a variety of caudatum?
     
  10. Apr 15, 2016 #10

    NYEric

    NYEric

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    Yes, but very rarely does someone who went through the trouble to pollinate, store, sow, replate, replate, flask, compot, grow..a new cross and then let someone else name it. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Apr 15, 2016 #11

    troy

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    Anything is better than the name they gave it lol.... marilyn made the cross, I sent her an email with a picture she wants one with all of them open, I asked her if it has been named she hasn't got back to me yet
     
  12. Apr 15, 2016 #12

    Rob Zuiderwijk

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    Hi Dot,

    Not quite sure what you mean.

    The entity/taxon that was known as Phrag. warscewiczianum or sometimes Phrag. caudatum var. warscewiczianum before the reshuffling of names is now called Phrag. popowii or Phrag. humboldtii depending on which view you follow.

    The entity/taxon that before the shuffling was known as Phrag. wallisii or sometimes Phrag. caudatum var. wallisii now goes by the name of Phrag. warszewiczianum.


    I hope this answers you question.

    Rob
     
  13. Apr 15, 2016 #13

    Bjorn

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    Well, I was permitted (actually encouraged) by Alfredo Manrique twice:eek:
    Of course, I was the first that made them bloom;)
     
  14. Apr 15, 2016 #14

    labskaus

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    I thought the central american entity called popowii used to run as humboldii (for a short time) and (caudatum var.) warszewiczii.
    The pale small-flowered south american form commonly known as wallisii also carries the name warszewiczianum.
     
  15. Apr 15, 2016 #15

    NYEric

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    I guess she didn't want your name on it! :poke:

    Doesn't everyone have a Phrag named after them!? :evil:
     
  16. Apr 15, 2016 #16
    Exactly, I think this is getting more confusing than it need to be popowii Was always warscewiczii. I have seen it called warszewiczianum but that was rare, a mistake in itself and mostly due to not paying attention to spelling detail. That is how I always new it and the name changes did not seem so confusing.
     
  17. Apr 16, 2016 #17

    troy

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    Marilyn wants to register it, although it has already been awarded & named under wallisii.....?
     
  18. Apr 16, 2016 #18

    SlipperFan

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    Thanks Rob. That's what I thought, but I got confused when I saw on your site under species, caudatum var. wallisii.
     
  19. Apr 16, 2016 #19

    NYEric

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    Let her know it's already registered.
     
  20. Apr 17, 2016 #20

    Rob Zuiderwijk

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    @Dot
    The old PhragWeb web site has not been updated for a loooong time and is as a consequence not up to date when it comes to the name changes of the taxa in the section Phragmipedium. When I made the last changes to PhragWeb the discussion was already going on full, but I failed to keep up. I won't bother you with the details about why I stopped updating the web site.
    The day before yesterday I uploaded the first, sort of preliminary, version of my new web site which I've been working on. At the moment I'm busy entering a framework of names of both natural taxa and hybrids, but it's far from complete at the moment. The part concerning the Phragmipedium species is relatively up to date what the names are concerned, and there you can find the names and synonyms as they are at the moment i.m.h.o., based on the literature I've read.
    If interested go to www.slipperiana.info (or simply use www.phragweb.info) and see for yourself.

    @Carsten, Cheyenne et al.
    The confusing discussion concerning the naming of the taxa in the section Phragmipedium, and especially the Meso American taxon has been going on for over a decade. At the moment it seems to have settled down a bit. During the period of discussion there were sort of three 'camps' with their own views on things; Robert Dressler et al., Guido Braem et al. and the late Eric Christenson. Of these three groups the 'Dressler-group' proposed all sort of names, including humboltii, exstaminodium subsp. warszewiczii and all sort of varieties en subspecies. Eric Christenson (although I haven't been able to get my hands on his article(s)) seems mainly to have proposed the use of the name Phrag. warszewiczii. Guido Braem et al. say that in the confusion in the old days the Meso American taxon has never been described and propose the new name Phrag. popowii. There have been numerous articles with discussions on the subject in various orchid journals and scientific papers. All in all there are two names that seemed have survived at the moment, Phrag. popowii and Phrag. humboldtii.

    Recently the R.H.S. announced that they have asked Robert Dressler et al. to research the material again and come with an answer that would solve this matter once and for all. And how surprising..., they came up with the name Phrag. humboldtii. The R.H.S. now accepts humboldtii as the correct name and uses that one in it's register of hybrids. The funny thing is that they still seem to use the name of Phrag. wallisii for the other taxon involved in the name changing.

    P.S. sorry for the long story.

    Rob
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016

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